Origin of Species Campaign Enrages Atheists
Origin of Species

An angry backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to stop answering questions about a special edition of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species" he plans to give away on university campuses this fall.

"From now on I will refuse to answer questions about the book or its contents," Comfort said, "because there is such a deep-rooted anger in the atheist world about this publication.

"They desperately want to stop us," he said, "and I don't want to give away any further details regarding the campaign."

Comfort - host of "The Way of the Master" television show with actor Kirk Cameron and head of Bellflower, Calif.-based Living Waters ministry - is preparing a campaign Nov. 19 with Cameron to mark the 150th anniversary of "Origin of Species." They plan to distribute 120,000 copies of a special edition of Darwin's seminal book on 100 of the top university campuses across the nation.

They will be assisted by a few thousand volunteers, said Comfort, who wrote a 50-page introduction in which he says he provided evidence for intelligent design, the theory that the universe and life is the result of an intelligent creator.

Comfort, author of the newly released book "Nothing Created Everything," says atheists have discussed their strategy to combat his "Origin of Species" edition on Richarddawkins.net, the website of popular atheism advocate Richard Dawkins. Comfort dedicated "Nothing Created Everything" to the British biologist.

One post on a forum on Dawkins' website says of the "Origin" campaign: "If this outrages you, then you're not alone. There's something we can do though. We can amass as many of these books as possible, remove the 50 page intro, and then donate perfectly good copies of Origin of Species to schools, libraries, and Goodwill. We can actually make this into something positive."

The atheists are encouraging college students on campuses where the distributions are taking place to get as many copies of the book as they can.

"This is a shameful thing that Kirk Cameron and [Ray Comfort] are doing by altering another person's book in order to push their agenda," the post says. "But we can help to restore the book to how it was intended and keep young minds from being brainwashed by misinformation."

Comfort argues the book has not been altered at all.

"The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot nor tittle will be removed," he said.

Comfort asks, "Besides, if they think my arguments have no merit, why are they so upset? They should actually enjoy the fact that I'm spreading more of my idiotic claims that intelligent students will see right through - that way my stupidity will be that much more apparent."

Comfort pointed out there have here been more than 140 individual publications of "Origin of Species," and many had introductions.

Comfort's introduction contains information from "Everything Created Nothing," which asserts "many scientists actually believe the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything."

He quotes a numbers of scientists making that assertion, including Dawkins.

"That is making them fume, because it shows that their theory is not at all intelligent," Comfort said.

Other atheist forums are calling for book burnings.

"I'm not into burning books, but this one deserves to be," wrote one contributor. "Anyone up for a large bonfire?"

Another warned "efforts at UC Berkeley will be met with unilateral resistance."

The comments sections at Comfort's Youtube.com pages, which are getting hundreds of thousands of views, are filled with hatred, Comfort says.

One atheist wrote, "Seriously, I hate Ray Comfort now. I mean really hate him. He might try and sound polite, and sound like he's just trying to reason with you and that he really cares about you. In reality, he's just trying to make himself feel that he's right. He's also very disrespectful (in a respectful manner) ... I hate Ray Comfort."



Comments (863)
  • Lorna  - How can I get that book?
    I recently decided to put my 14yr old into public school. I have been watching
    biology pretty close, but to my surprise she is being bombarded in history with
    evolution. I would love your book on the Origin of Species. I am not to
    interested in darwins take, but would be smart to equip myself with this science
    fiction now turned history. Any and all materials would be appreciated.
    Thank-You, Lorna Clark
  • Pastor D  - Thomas
    Yes he was very much still an apostle. But he did need a little more convincing
    then the others.

    Look at this
    James-Jesus' half brother, didn't believe the claims of Jesus as the messiah

    Thomas, as you mentioned, doubt as well.

    Even Paul didn't believe Jesus was the messiah.

    Until they physically seen him after the resurrection.

    Now my friend I ask you to respectfully to consider this, I'm assuming you will
    counteract the resurrection. These are facts.

    1. Romans were very good at imposing and carrying out death sentences, they
    enjoyed it. The even staked their lives on fulfilling their duties.

    2. The man, Ananias, was one of the Jewish officials who called for Jesus'
    death. But then, according to the bible offered his brand new tomb for Jesus to
    be buried in.

    3. The stone that was use to close the tomb required a couple of strong men to
    move, and the fact that ...
  • averageheight  - Now I hate to be a bother, but...
    Only land dwelling creatures get their carbon directly from the atmosphere. That
    is why aquatic creatures like whales, penguins, mollusks, etc. cannot be
    carbon-dated accurately. And I'm talking errors of 4000 years. This is
    scientifically known, and it's called the marine reservoir effect.

    Now, I'm not saying radiocarbon dating is wrong, I'm saying that the results
    will be erroneous when trying to date aquatic life.

    Well, there's my two pence.
  • Jeff  - ...NOT mutually exclusive
    Evolution. The WAY God CREATED the earth.
  • Glen
    The bible says God created man in his own image. Fully formed and ready to go
    from the start. Man did not grow into it nor did he evole into what God had
    made. The teatimony from God is that man was fully formed by the very Hand of
    God. By saying that God created the planet to evolve man is saying God is a
    liar.

    God does not lie.

    Hence, they are mutually exclusive.

    BTW: the bible also states that God made ALL the animals of this planet fully
    formed and ready to go. No evolution.
  • Sam Johnson  - Actually
    God said let there be...the only thing He "made" was Man.

    Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:7

    Encouraging isn't it? Too see God made us, thereby, putting us above all on
    earth.
  • Pastor D  - Made more then man
    If you read the bible, specifically Genesis, you will see that GOD created more
    then man.

    In the beginning God created (made) the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:1

    And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the
    firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. Gen 1:7

    And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the
    waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after
    his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:21

    I am assuming that you are making a statement that GOD did in fact create us,
    but HE also created everything.
  • Jon
    Evolution by Natural Selection, the subject of Darwin's book, isn't about the
    origin of the earth. That would be Cosmology.
    Darwin's book is about speciation the subject of how animals come into being.
  • Glen
    Darwin's SPECULATION subject is entirely wrong. No fossile records show
    transitional forms. Interestingly all the fossiles are completely formed and
    ready to go. All limbs and organs fully established.

    This finding fully corroberates the claims made by the Bile that Animals and Man
    were made without speciation process that has been speculatively put forth by
    Darwin.

    I am not aruging cosmology but creation!
  • Alexander James Hofstetter  - Alexander
    Along your lines of logic, the bible (which in your case of usage does not
    deserve to be recognized as a proper book, and will therefore not be
    capitalized) has way to prove its points either. It is based on faith. Science,
    and in turn evolution, work on the collection and logical comprehension of
    information to create a theory. In science, theory is not considered to be
    infallible, but rather it is considered to be correct until concrete evidence
    can be given to prove otherwise. Religion gives no solid evidence that can
    disprove science, and no science can be used to deter your faith in your
    religion as well.


    And as for your assertion about fossils, that event occurs because developing
    organisms are the easiest prey and therefore the ones not suited to live to a
    reproductive age generally don't survive. A predator will attack the animal that
    is missing a limb or vital organ and can't escape or defend itself as ...
  • eceaser45  - Darwin's danger
    The only thing I would have done differently is publish the book under it's full
    title "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the
    Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" I am sure that in
    the interest of full academic disclosure that athiests certainly would not
    object to the overtly racist implications of Darwin's theory.
  • Jon
    When the book was written the word Race was also used to refer to different
    species. For instance the race of Cats (Lions, Tigers, Puma's etc).
    There is no evidence that Darwin was racist nor is there any racist undertones
    in the book, quite the opposite as it points out the similarities between all
    humans.
  • Barbara Elbertson  - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
    Dear Ray & Kirk,

    I will pray for you both, for our Lord to give you the words to open the door
    for the Holy Spirit of God to shine the light on the hearts of the college
    students you speak to.

    You are doing the right thing, after all look at how those lost in darkness are
    stirred up. I pray for them to see the truth.

    May God continue to bless you and your wonderful ministry.

    We live by Faith, not by sight.
    Walk always in love.
  • Glen  - >>>possesions epilog
    And there you have it although breifly summarized.
  • Glen  - Possesions Finale
    Here is what Antithesit does not want to hear. Refuses to acknowledge. With
    the very same question the people standing around asked Jesus, "Who then can
    be saved?" The people were so frustrated with Jesus that the were utterly
    hopeless. Jesus did not say impossible. Although when a person hears about a
    camel being pushed through the eye of a needle that is the very first thing that
    comes to mind. There ain't no way!

    Jesus then tells everyone around, "What is impossible for men is possible
    with God."

    The lust for this world is so overpowering that only God can break it! No human
    being can.
  • Glen  - Possesion 5
    Jesus became sad. Listen to Him say, "How hard it is for the rich to enter
    the kingdom of God." He did not say it is impossible nor has he told us to
    sell our goods and belongings! He told One man With his worldly goods standing
    in the place of God to sell his goods. For one reason; "...You will have
    treasures in heaven." Nothing about salvation in the goods transaction
    other than to rid himself of it so that God would be his God and eternal life
    would be his inheritance. Which is what this man is seeking.
  • Glen  - Possesions 4
    Jesus then tells the man what he does not have. Jesus says, " You still
    lack one thing....Come follow me.". Notice how the sentence stikes you.
    Jesus just told him the one thing he lacks is to follow Me NOT the selling of
    his possesions. Jesus told him what to do to eliminate the IDOL standing in the
    way of the rich mans way to God. Remember the first 4 comandments? THey are
    all about God and His place before us. Because God is not LIKE us.

    Poor rich guy only heard "sell all your stuff and give it away". And he
    became distraught becuase the Idol Jesus called out was very important to him.
    It bound him unto death and he walked away from Jesus calling him to 'follow
    me'.
  • Glen  - Possesions 3
    Jesus then took the rich guy right into the then commandments but deliberately
    ommitted 1,2,3 and 4. The ones discussed dealt with relation to other men.
    Please, please, please, note Jesus found ZERO fault with the rich mans answers.
    He actually answers honestly and Jesus found no fault with it. The man did deal
    well with his neighbors. In order; 7, 6, 8, 9, and 5. So 10 was not spoken.
    He was after all coveting eternal life.
  • Glen  - Possesions 2
    Always pause after a question has been asked. All people do. Jesus did too. He
    fully expected the guy to answer him. The accounts, all three, show the guy
    said nothing. No stammering, no Ummm, no objection to Jesus being off subject,
    Nothing! The man Failled to recognize Who he was talking too about inheriting
    eternal Life! And why did the rich guy think Jesus could give it to him? The
    answer is again found in the, "Why do you call me good?" question.

    Then Jesus told him Who He Is in the very next sentence. "Only God is
    good"
  • Glen  - Possesions
    Luke 18:18-30;Matthew 19:16-30; Mark 10:17-31. I think antithesit has been
    misunderstanding these passages of an encounter of This rich young man with
    Jesus of nazareth. THere is too much in this brief encounter to dicuss in this
    box. This guy that has it all goes to a wandering carpenter that has nothing to
    ask how to get what he doesn't have. The rich guy is either aware that he needs
    to change or he is simply looking to obtain what he cannot buy. So Jesus takes
    him to task, "Why do you call me good?". Seemingly off subject but the
    answer to the question. The guy was drawn to jesus becasue he saw he was Good.
    The very thing the rich man did not have and was looking to inherit. so much
    more...
  • CJLB Music  - This is sad.
    What a sad attempt at brainwashing. You guys already have your book, no need to
    take ours now.
    You must understand that most atheists have converted from theism after they
    learned to think objectively. We have heard all the theist arguments for
    creation and are not satisfied with a non-scientific answer to existence during
    the great age of modern-science.

    I think I am going to write a new intro to the bible and release 50,000 of those
    to schools.
    My name is Cameron Beveridge, remember that when you see my new book show up on
    shelves.
  • eisoj  - PS
    i heard Comfort apologised for the banana thing in the hand out. about time,
    that was a pathetic attempt at logic that failed miserably (funny though, i'll
    give him that much).
  • eisoj  - bah!
    as if my massive rant gets cut out. Now im not in the mood. oh well, ive been
    silenced once again but it wont be the last time! one question to whoever wants
    to answer it (and im not trying to be nasty when i ask this). Why are christians
    so reluctant to read texts from other religions/atheists? Im pretty familiar
    with the bible ive read bits of the torah/koran/buddhist texts im currently
    reading dawkins' god delusion (its amazing). If your so sure what you believe is
    right what are you afraid of?
  • Antitheist1  - Your answer...
    Is change. Many were Galileo's contemporaries who refused to even look into his
    telescope, because they 'KNEW' there was nothing useful to be gleaned from it.


    I'm currently studying world history, and I notice that all religions that are
    widely embraced/tolerated by nations have two features; 1)They all tell people
    what being 'good' is, and list rewards and punishments (payable AFTER you die,
    and never by the person who tells you about it) and 2)a way to excuse social
    inequities, telling you to forget about what those big, mean, rich people are
    doing! They'll get theirs, again, AFTER they die.

    I wonder why various rich people are so eager to print up and give away this
    sort of thinking, hmm?
  • George Cranston
    ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD, THE FATHER,THAT IS THROUGH THE SON,JESUS................



    WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO SIGN YOUR REAL NAME???
  • Antitheist1  - You can reach me...
    at ceevro@gmail.com . Use my name in the address, and I'll respond, and
    you'll learn my real name. Please understand that there are people out there
    who would try to harm me and mine for not believing what they do.



    I realize what you believe. I'm more interested in WHY you believe it. Present
    me your case, and I promise you, I will consider it fairly. Will you consider
    mine?
  • Glen  - Hmmm
    People out here to harm you? Do you keep all your phones in copper wire mesh? Do
    you surround your compure with it as well? Do you take the same rout hiome
    every day? Is you cell phone activated with its GPS system?

    I think one of 2 things is going on 1) the cult you came out of is trying to
    kill you 0r 2) you are on too many drugs. They cause paranoia and delustions,
    don't ya know. Another aternative is that you are scizophrenic. that make
    three I guess.

    Sorry for all the questions. I had to make fun of you a little. It is just so
    easy.
  • Professor of History  - Glen-Hmmm
    As you know, I've put my finger in a bit here and there. I must say, despite
    how much some of the things he says irks me, that I like our friend Antitheist1.
    I always try to avoid the ad hominem (too much of that came my way in school)
    or the judgemental. Sure, we could say that, Biblically, someone is going to
    Hell based on what we say today. I DO NOT say we can say for certain someone is
    "sealed." God allows us all to live for a given duration for his own
    purposes. And if A-1 is due for some purpose in addition to that which he now
    serves, that will become evident in due time. Respect, please.
  • Professor of History  - Glen-Hmmm, Pt.2.
    Sorry, I meant to say, "based on what we SEE today."

    Recently received a seven-pack of blues harmonicas, and instructional material
    (printed and disc). I really don't know how to read music, or what the letters
    mean, but I will enjoy puzzling this one out.

    Look. Just play nice, huh? I will say here, that, to me, Jesus is real, flesh,
    genuine like no one else. Next to Him, my life and self --especially seen from
    my "inner self" as many would express it today--I am but a cartoon
    character in comparison. Other people are like talking shadows.



    And Christianity is ALL about the Person of Christ.
  • Glen  - Professor
    Perhapse you are right. Perhapse we should not recognize Satan's work and call
    it out. We should just sit back and allow Satan to completely wreck the ship.
    Not me. Not gonna happen. Now scripture says things specifically about people
    that have accepted "the way" and subsequently rejected it. States it
    clear beyond the shadow of a doubt. A-1 has stated that he was a believer and
    that he subsequently rejected it. HE even demonsrtates a knowledge of scripture
    with a lie twist just like Satan in the garden and before Jesus. There is no
    path for him in this case.
  • Glen
    Hey Professor just wanted you to know that I think well of you. I just won't be
    moved by heresies. This is the greek word for "scool of thought". It
    gained a negative connotation later after Iraeneus wrote his volumes
    "Against Herseies". See many "schools of thought" were being
    born by Satan in even the early Church. Where better to destroy it? Ireaneus
    took on the apollogetics of his day in these volumes.

    Ireaneus is the student of Polycarp Who was the student of the Apostle John.
    Some say the Evangelist John making a distiction that he was not a direct
    witness to the person of Jesus. You're the history prof look around see what you
    find.
  • Professor of History  - Glen
    I was not saying that we should not "call out" falsehood and heresy. I
    do this often, and have sometimes paid heavily for it. I simply say that there
    is a difference between being correct, clever, or cruel. We have a "cloud
    of witnesses," remember? Ultimately, even if you don't sway Antitheist--as
    nice or nasty as he may be--you will sway a great many people who read this and
    DON'T jump in, like I do. We are all about CONVINCING people, the way Paul
    convinced the Bereans. He praised them--for doubting him. How does Christ want
    us to OVERCOME?
  • Glen
    Agreed! I think you have a sound mind and a good way of reigning in my attcking
    nature. Thanx. I will try to do better. A-1's rhetoric simply enrages me at
    times and I think I act before I think. Although angry at the thought processes
    I have not a mean bone in my body. I just abhor violence. I really just run as
    fast and as far from it as I can. I also feel very sorry for where A-1 is. There
    is so much anger and hate in him towards God, even though he claims there is not
    one.

    Hey thanx again for reeling me in. tater

    BTW: good questions below.
  • Professor of History  - Reply Pt 2
    I am going to repeat questions I posed awhile ago. I look for reasoned answers.


    Using Evolutionary Theory, could ANYONE credibly explain:



    How we get the woodpecker?



    How did DNA evolve?



    How did the basic amino acids combine by accident--CONTRARY to the LAWS (NOT

    Theory) of Themodynamics?



    How on earth did the duckbill platypus come to be?



    Feathers? Eyeballs? The Human Reproductive System? (at once both INCREDIBLY

    complex, and--humorous)



    Sexual vs. Asexual Reproduction? Why? And why do some creatures switch between
    one and the other--and we don't (without surgery)?



    Many of you say evolution is science. I DISAGREE.



    SCIENCE corrects mistakes. Evolution is Faith in letters of stone 20 feet tall.

    Oh, and could anyone explain why CURRENT publications reference ALL the fossil
    frauds, including embryonic evolutionary recapitulation,as though they we...
  • Tom  - Proffessor of History's questions
    At first I assumed the woodpecker was an easy one, then I Googled it and figured
    out that you were probably referring to the tongue thing, that supposedly
    couldn't have evolved. This website:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/woodpecker/woodpec ker.html shows that a similar
    structure exists in other birds, it's just much longer in the woodpecker. I'm
    assuming you could verify that from another source if you wanted.

    In evolutionary terms, if an early version of the woodpecker discovered it had a
    slight talent for drilling through tree bark to find food, then individuals with
    better beaks and tongues for the job would be slightly favoured.

    There's no solid theory yet for the evolution of DNA, but this site addresses
    the question and gives a possible answer:
    http://www.evolutionofdna.com/Evolution-Of-DNA.htm l

    This Oxford Journal covers the inferred order of introduction of amino acids
    into the genetic cod...
  • Tom
    So some of my hard work in the post above seems to have been cut off, but
    essentially you can find answers to all of those questions yourself. Some of
    them don't have definitive answers yet, but you can still read up on the current
    theories and see how science is progressing. Try Google Scholar for the best
    results. Most of them are scientific journals, and therefore quite long and
    technical, but you are asking pretty high-level questions there.
  • Professor of History  - Tom
    I am pleased to see someone taking this seriously. One of my points in this, is
    that for a new structure, then a new creature, to "evolve," often ALL
    the components that make a new creature have to come into play at once. One
    would suppose that bat wings are simpler than feathered bird wings, for example.
    Then why aren't ALL bird leather-winged? All the bird things that make up a
    woodpecker are just TOO MUCH to create a unified creature that wouldn't become
    catfood withing minutes.
  • Professor of History  - Tom-2
    I break up my responses like this so they don't get...broken.

    Unique woodpecker structures:

    Skull--spongy, like a motorcyclist's helmet.

    The tongue thingy. (length, barbed structure, tacky saliva, orientation)

    Apposite toe arrangement.

    That drill bill business. (Uma Thurman?...)



    Bird things.

    Speed of usage (Drilling, consider-hummingbird wings..)

    Hollow bones--but special organs to replace marrow.

    Feathers (whole volumes there!)

    Bionic (!) hearing.

    Wing arrangement (Flight!)



    One animal thing.

    Coloring--Look how feathers grow, lying against the surface, yet create COMPLEX
    patterns. Same with Animal fur--Lookit Ur Kat.

    Why? HOW?
  • Professor of History  - Tom-3
    Another point of mine, is that science, even when complex, contains within it
    the kernals of easily discerned truths. Laws of Thermodynamics, for instance.

    As one example, I use the Law of Gravity to attract doughnuts...

    Sure, I am big enough for that, but not quite large enough to be my own
    satellite...

    I also use Inertia, both stable and, (once I get started) in motion. It is just
    that the "connections" in Evolution are so slim, so ephemeral, that even
    relative tyros can pick it apart to head-scratching futility.

    In the end, most of the True Believers wanted Stephen Jay Gould to just--shut
    up. Remember his embrace of the "hopeful monster" theory?

  • Tom  - Professor o' history 1
    Evolution does have that same little kernel of truth, it's just harder to pick
    up because it plays out over such a long time, and is so counter-intuitive.

    Some people say the term homo sapiens, man the thinker, is inaccurate - we are
    more like homo faber, man the maker. The thing that allowed us to survive as a
    species, our one unique trait, was our unrivalled ability to create and use
    tools. Ironically, that very product of evolution is the same thing that makes
    it so difficult for us to see things in evolutionary terms.
  • Tom  - Professor o' History 2
    We are used to seeing clever people build things that are smaller and less
    clever than their creator. We are designed by over a million years of
    environmental pressure to think in this way. "I will make a spear, and it
    will help me hunt. I will make a fur coat, and it will keep me warm. These
    things I make are mine and they serve to keep me alive." We survived by
    building little tools out of the complex structures - wood, bone, stone, fur,
    whatever - that we found around us.

    This is why it is so hard to see that really, the evolutionary theory of complex
    structures arising out of simple things actually makes a lot of sense. That same
    kernel of truth can be applied to other things, like astronomy. The theory goes
    that the stars themselves grew out of tiny disparate specks of hydrogen back in
    the beginning of the universe, growing larger as they clumped together, and
    gaining gravitational power as they grew.
  • Tom  - Professor o' History 3
    With the stars in place, there was mass and heat and light in a previously empty
    universe, that(through some complicated chemical reactions I don't fully
    remember right now) allowed for the creation of more complex elements - an
    element is just a particular combination of protons and electrons, after all.
    With the periodic table a little more fleshed out, there were all these elements
    int he universe that weren't capable of fusing together to make suns. Instead
    they were caught in the suns' gravitational fields and formed planets.


  • Tom  - Professor o' History 4
    There's obviously a whole lot more to this than I am actually capable of
    explaining, but I hope you get the idea. If you want to get a better handle on
    what I'm saying, and if you can bring yourself to it, try reading a bit of
    Richard Dawkins. I understand that his name is not one that people who call
    themselves True Believers like to hear, but he is very good at explaining
    complicated scientific theories to laymen like me.
  • Conan
    If you don't mind my joining in, perhaps he could attempt to explain the
    formation of DNA. There's a hefty problem for evolution right there
  • Person  - Texts
    I'm a Christian and have read the God delusion (and various other texts
    regarding this issue). I think that it has logical holes in it you could drive
    a truck through.
  • Antitheist1  - Which holes?
    Seriously, please let me know what you don't understand or find false!
  • RiqG  - reluctant, whatever!
    the truth is that christians have looked and studied and searched. the
    difference is we have also found the answer. so...in my studies:When was the
    universe created?some say 5 - 50billion years ago; how is this arrived at-? time
    calender dating one's called radiometric dating-theoritically determines the age
    of rocks..however there are problems with radiometric dating-example,
    radiometric dating shown certain rocks from volcanoes in Russia to be 5billion
    years old when in fact it is known they were formed in the last 200years.In
    opposition to these ancient dates, a number of creation scientists feel there is
    mounting evidence that our earth may be much younger than supposed, maybe less
    than 12000yrs old. first;Population Stats. if man appeared over 1million years
    ago, the present world population would be thousands of times greater than it
    actually is-in fact our entire GALAXY could not provide the needed space for so
    many....
  • dchap417
    repent or you WILL perish!
  • steve  - Reply to eisoj
    I've read many of the books from other religions. Many of them as I was taking
    courses at college in comparative religions. It was also long before I became a
    Christian. Having researched the scientific and historical aspects, along with
    the archeological accuracy of all the other books, I came to the conclusion the
    Bible is the most accurate account there is of our existence. Also,
    historically, Jesus is the proof of the prophesies. The odds of 1 person
    fulfilling just 3 prophesies is astronomical. Do you realize how impossible it
    would be to fulfill as many as Jesus did without God's planning. And the
    accuracy of the prophesies proves God's existence as far as I'm concerned!
  • Ella  - I'm not reluctant
    Hi Eisoj,
    I'm born again and I've read the Khoran. I'm sure of the Bible's truth and
    accuracy, so I'm not worried about reading any other texts. In fact, reading
    other texts impresses upon me the veracity of scripture and the incredible
    difference between biblical Christianity and other faiths.
  • Glen  - tired of asking
    "I spent many years as a believer! You claim that the Jesus dude negated the
    old stuff, right? But he's, like, the same guy as the old dude, right? So, like,
    um...did he ever apologize to all those kids he ordered to be executed, stoned,
    and burned alive (read the Torah)? Did he ever mention how he was wrong in

    killing ALL THE FIRSTBORN KIDS IN AN ENTIRE COUNTRY? I kinda think there shoulda
    been a bit of an "I have SINNED!" moment there somewhere."

    Copied and pasted comment by none other than Antitheist. Please note the first
    sentence. It is in the next thread after this one with the girl reading a copy
    of the give away.
  • Antitheist1  - Tired of saying...
    You told me that you really don't care if I get 'saved.' So why do you care if
    I don't answer your question?



    You answer me first, G-man;



    HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY HAVING POSSESIONS AT ALL WHEN JESUS TOLD YOU REPEATEDLY THAT
    YOU CANNOT BE HIS FOLLOWER WHILE YOU OWN ANYTHING?
  • Glen  - Care
    I realy don't waste time on things that have already been done. Jesus came to
    save the entire world including the ones that reject Him. See, God reconsiled
    Himself to the entire world through Jesus, who is also God. God manifested
    Himself in the flesh to accomplish the reconsiliation of His side. As in every
    relationship there are two sides. Now it is the individuals turn to accept or
    reject. For you it would be better if you did not accept Him than to accept Him
    and then reject Him.
  • Glen
    Answering my question is irrelevant. YOu pride and the integrity it brings will
    force you to save something.

    I am not concerned with you answering me. I am nothing. But you have stated
    that you were a believer. This it for those believers that have chastised me
    for calling you out. They must have missed the testimony By you about you.
    Since you claim to have been a believer in Jesus and not fircely cliam
    independence from the "Fairy tale" you have fit right into scripute and
    I want to teach them. You cannot be brought back to repentance. Unless this
    putative converion was false.
  • Glen  - now forthe yelling...
    1) did you just ask me to JUSTIFY something? remember justify vs redeem.

    2) This is a bigger question than you realize:

    a) I need to know from what text you were taught this rule,

    b) From the above statement it is clear you have been lied to and I need the
    listing in a) above to discover the lie and correct it,

    c) finally I will no justify anything. You are asking the wrong question.



    Lastly, why are you screaming at me? Since all of this is a fairy tale for you
    any way? Seems rather silly of you to be angry over that which you don't
    recognize as existing.
  • Glen  - About God
    One more thing I'd like to say concerning God and His manefestation in the flesh
    as a human. By doing this very act God has singed a covenant with humans. God
    will not act to destroy us as many try to get people to believe because God
    would also have to destroy Jesus, the very object of His love and Jesus is fully
    human. So many people cannot understand this and they have never been taught
    this so they really don't understand how big the covenant is nor how deep God's
    love is for humans. The signature on this covenant is His own blood, the blood
    of God manefested in human flesh, Jesus of Nazareth. That was and Is His part in
    our reconcilliation and it is also His work to redeem us from the powers of
    Satan; ie. sin and death.
  • Antitheist1  - Aaaargh!
    "I tell you the truth; it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle
    than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."



    Got an iPod? Cell-phone? Car? Holiday in Hawaii? Halogen street lights?
    Wrist-watch?



    King Soloman did not have these things; he couldn't afford them. You are filthy
    rich.



    Jesus said that you have virtually no chance of getting into heaven if you are
    rich.



    Where did I lie? Did the bible lie to me (shock)? I've asked you over and over
    and over to explain your possessions. It seems to me that any true believer
    would have long given up owning anything, because that multiplies heavenly
    treasure.

    Got stuff?
  • Glen  - still don't get it.
    Come on Anti you are better than this. What passeage are you talking about and
    what teching did you recieve as a result. These are simple questions. I can
    ealily see that you have been taught a lie. It is as clear as a cool clean
    glass of water. The bible did not lie to you. Possesions are NOT fobidden by
    Jesus (God). King Solomon had an entire country and all that entils. You
    cannot say he was not rich beyond me. Although he did not have the technology
    we have today he was far in excess of the technology of his day. Like comparing
    apples to oranges. Jesus did not say I have virtually no chance. You simply
    twist truth into lies and attempt to tech them.
  • Antitheist1  - I've listed...
    ...said passages, in full, with chapter/verse and version attached on the other
    thread.



    On the subject of riches, I refer you to Larry Niven's article on wealth. You
    can fly, Soloman could not, even with all the resources of his whole country.
    You can, and do, convert energy to work at a rate Soloman was incapable of. The
    only true measure of wealth is energy use. That is the only constant measure,
    the rest is variable (Roman soldiers were paid in salt, which is nearly
    worthless today, and certainly not a currency!).



    And all I did was tell you, verbatim, about the very thing you've been trying to
    sell me on...I notice that you aren't buying it, either.
  • Glen
    Again you are comparing apples to oranges and cannot unsderstand it. It is not
    thechnology that is being spoken of. And the lesson has nothing to do with his
    belongings.

    YOu are incapable of understanding it even whent told. There is no point in
    continuing a dialogue with you becasue you demonstrate an incabability to
    understand. No matter how I say it you'll fail every time to comprehend. The
    ability is not within you. You are devoid of the ability to comprehend.

    I said it as many ways a I could think of for brvities sake.

    Later pal.
  • Antitheist1  - And yet...
    ...it says what it says. If we are not allowed to interpret 'day' in Genesis,
    why should we be allowed to interpret 'rich man?'

    I know what you're saying, Glen, but you're dodging the issue. The bible
    states, in black and white, that rich men are nearly impossible to get into
    heaven. You are denying it says that, even when shown your own text. Thus, I
    postulate that you don't honestly believe in the text you are promoting. You're
    like Dick Cheney; deferred five times from 'Nam, then advocating war.
  • Glen
    THere is no Interpretation of "day' for me. If God cannot create everything
    you see in six of our Earth based days then He is not Big enough to be what he
    claims. \

    Since He is and He did Case closed.

    Again "rich man" is the only thing you can see. His riches were not the
    issue his heat was and if you were even remotely aware you would recognise that
    too.

    Ague the Possesions and "rich man" until you die. It won't change a
    thing.

    I also am not denying what is says. You slip falsehood into it and change what
    is seen and known into a lie. Just like Satan on the first day of mans
    rebellion.
  • Antitheist1  - His heat?
    What on earth are you talking about? The word 'heat' wasn't even mentioned! If
    you can't interpret 'day,' then why should you be allowed to interpret 'rich
    man?'

    And the pity is that I know it won't change a thing; you will not give up being
    a rich man, and you'll do any measure of self-justification to do it. Face it,
    deep-down, you know that noone will provide for you if you don't provide for
    yourself.

    And since you feel the need to compare me to a fictional character, I'll compare
    you to one!

    I hearby dub thee...VOLTRON!
  • Glen
    Spelling error...HEART. my bad.

    And this rich man thing you got going on is dubious at best. really anti you
    really need to dicard all the crap that was beaten into you for you sake. Come
    on. This rich man teaching that you are stuck around is false. Unwrap your
    brain and see the issue of this man worshipping his money and Earthly possesions
    in front of God. That means instead of God. In this case it really looks like
    God reall is worshipped, just secondarily to the Earthly things. Since God isn't
    placed first the heart is stuck and cannot follow Jesus. We all must give up
    this Idol(s) and put Jesus there first. Once that is done, Anti, your answers
    will come.

    Now that was an attempt to convert you.
  • Antitheist1  - Dawkins...
    ...raises an interesting question; would a deity prefer self-deluding belief
    over honest skepticism? If nothing else, my concession to religion is that I'm
    honest about what I think about it, and remain willing to consider any point of
    view I can see for myself.



    If you want to convert me, Glen, here's your chance; why do you believe what you
    believe? Why should I?

    Consider carefully before you answer here; you have talked with me enough to
    know what kind of mind I have, so use this knowledge to honestly attempt to show
    me a new point of view. I am listening.
  • Glen  - Dawkin's
    Me thinks dwr left out other equivalent posibilities. HE and you accept onlt
    these two listed in your post yet there is at least one more. Honest
    overwhelming PROOF that Jesus of Nazareth is the manefestaion of the creator God
    in the flesh come to destroy the power of Satan; ie sin and death with it.
    Obviously it is left out of your consideration completely so you cannot come to
    understand it. Ommited inforation is not good. Antithieist, I don't nor does
    any human being have the power to convert you. Asking me to do it is
    inapropriate. Only God the Holy Spirit can lead you to that conversion. But
    you already know that. I cannot show you a new point of view. You have already
    been told.
  • Barbara Elbertson  - Convert You???
    Sorry Anti,

    No one can convert you. As my brothers in Christ would ask you: are you a good
    person? Have you EVER lied? Ever stole? Ever looked after a woman or man with
    lust?

    If I had to answer those 3 of the 10 commandments I would answer YES, so by my
    own account I would be a lier, a thief and adulterer. When I died and stood
    before my Holy, Righteous God, would I be guilty or innocent? I would be guilty
    and my punishment would be eternal separation from God. If you are honest with
    yourself, your answers would be yes as well.

    God loves His creation so He made a way for us to be saved, He sent His Son (God
    in the flesh) who died so His blood covers our sin. Now as long as we remain in
    Jesus, God will not destroy us for breaking His Holy Law.

    Once convicted of your sin by the Holy Law of God, the Holy Spirit of God leads
    you to salvation in Jesus Christ as you repent your sins and fall down bef...
  • Barbara Elbertson  - The Rich Man
    Hi Anti,

    Let me *try* to explain the *parable* to you. Jesus in NOT speaking of the young
    man's possessions only. Jesus is speaking to the heart of the young man and were
    his priorities lie. Were your treasure is there will your heart be also.

    In other words, you can NOT serve God and money, which simply means that if you
    have riches, you are going to have your riches on your mind more than you do
    Jesus: EX: robbers, moths, stock market, things of that sort.

    Our minds should be on the things of God. Also Jesus said, God would meet our
    needs. He will care for us. So having *things* is not a sin UNLESS you put them
    before God.
    As the first commandment says: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME....other
    gods could be money, your car, your wife or anything you place above God.

    May the Creator of us all your sins as he does me and reveal the truth through
    His Holy Spirit, who brings all wisdom and...
  • Glen
    I went looking in the "other thread" --there are several--and i found
    nothing. Seks to me that you'd waste fewer words trying to dircert me and just
    list what it is you are refering to AND the lesson you were taught.

    But I know you won't. So I'll just assume you don't have a clue. really no
    different than any other day
  • Antitheist1  - So you've failed...
    So far, I've just been unimpressed with your arguments, Glen. They've all been
    nothing other than 'My view is correct, you are a fool for not believing it,
    when you show me something, you're just lying, and you're gonna go to hell for
    not believing my view. And I don't have to tell you why.'

    You demand references for my statements, which I have provided, then refuse to
    back anything you assert up, calling me lazy, as you refuse to even take the
    time to read over your own posts to check for typos.

    You see, when we've discussed topics other than my damnation and 'cluelessness,'
    you seem like a decent guy with a good sense of humour. Apply that decent
    guyness elsewhere, and you might just gain some respect.
  • Glen
    I don't require your respect.

    I am not arguing nor debating with you. All i do is tell you the truth and
    whatever you choose for a response is entirely up to you. Your response does not
    change the truth.

    I have not failed. Jesus did not fail either. You have lost your way in the
    niose of this place and you have chosen the path to destruction. That isn't
    fail either. It simply is your direction. Only the power of the Holy Spirit
    coupled with your repentance will change that. Nothing else. Thanx for the
    comlement. I am really kinda cool, not, ANd I actually won home coming king
    honors, not, and was on the football team, not, I was the star QB, not, and I
    also was a leading scorer in basketball, not, just an all around perfect guy,
    not. lol.
  • Antitheist1  - Wildly Successful Origins Giveaway
    ...is the title of the 'other thread,' and my commentary, with citations, is
    given in response to your post, which finished with the following paragraph;



    "Eternal torture is not the lot of those that know why Jesus came. And so
    that

    you'll now--PAY ATTENTION--Jesus came to break the power of Satan not humans.

    Humans are captives, Satan is the jailer. Jesus destroyed the power of the

    jailer. Wake up."

    By all means, keep telling me how I lie, while you refuse to look.
  • Glen
    "By all means, keep telling me how I lie, while you refuse to look."



    Okay. thanx
  • Pastor D  - I'll respond
    When Jesus made that statement, he was he was making a point. And the point
    being this. The very first commandment is "You shall have no other god
    before me." Those with earthly riches will not give up their possessions,
    become poor again, and follow Christ. They have become accustom to the "good
    life".

    With that being said, If you went up to Donald Trump and told him in order for
    him to get into heaven he must get rid of everything he owns and follow Christ.
    He would probably laugh in your face.

    That is why Jesus said that, to see the rich man's level of commitment.

    Now are Christians perfect? Absolutely NOT!!
    I personally, as a minister of the gospel, take offense at many of my Christian
    brothers. I am ashamed and appalled that so many church keep getting bigger.
    Call me old fashion but I believe it is the churches job to get out and spread
    the gospel as Christ commanded us to ...
  • Antitheist1  - ...and...
    ...I stand by everything I wrote above.
  • Lindsey Winchester  - LOVE!
    Although I do not know much about the Bible. I know one thing and that is that
    EVERYTHING was created by God! The reasons why things look the same and have the
    same features is because we came form one creator. I am so incredibly happy
    that this book was giving out. I wish I was out doing more to save the lost. The
    end is coming, and believers need to do all we can to plant seeds in others.
    The day when Jesus arrives I hope that every atheist with fall to their knees
    and prays God, because they were told it was going to happen. Atheist usually
    have to have see things to believe (by the way just by looking at nature one can
    see we were created by God) So the day they see the rapture, BE READY!
    I just wanna say that I am speaking for myself.
    And I love and hope that every person will one day be in heaven :)
    GOD BLESS EVERYONE!
  • Antitheist1  - Thomas..
    ...was still an apostle...
  • Ed Smith  - Every knee shal bend, every head will bow
    Lindsey,

    They will every atheist, every person who shook his or her puny little hand at
    God. Will one day fall on bended knee and bow their heads and proclaim Jesus as
    KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS.
  • VillageTree  - Um..
    'Although I do not know much about the Bible'... ?

    Why are Christians so often so undereducated about their own faith?
  • Glen  - un-undereducated
    This is a very real and good question. I am not sure I know all of the answers
    because each situation is different but I can state from my experience what
    today's assembly of putative belivers, herin called Church, does wrong. The
    church was set up for one believer to convert and fully teach his/her deciple
    until he died. Then the deciple would follow in his footasteps with his own.
    Today none of that happens. Someone gets "saved" and is thrown to the
    wolves to find thier own way. This leads to heresis and discontent followed by
    backsliding and in many cases rejection.
  • Glen
    The bigger question is why is this happening. Just as from the beginning the
    lawless one has been at work, he is also at work today. A little heresy leads
    to another until a big one and then a flat out lie. Satan does not want any of
    us to know the truth.

    All of this leads the new and even old believers to listen to doctrine rather
    than the bible. It also leads to them not reading the bible but listening to
    the doctrine. It is the doctrine that is leading astray.
  • Glen  - The problem....
    I have been trynig to listen to "the preoblem" with several of the
    posters that stand against God whilst in these threads. I then get caught up in
    the arguments rather than listening for "the problem". Recently I have
    withdrawn greatly so as to refocus. As a result I have heard a very interesting
    answer. Antithesists and Athiests are all seeking Justification for this place
    and God. God does not give justification to man. God gives as a gift to man
    Redeem-tion. God redeems this place for man out of love. Because man fouled it
    up. God did not justify He redeemed! Should the antitheist and/or Athiest even
    realize that miracle made from God by God and for man to God's glory then they
    will be most definatley melted. And God chose the Jews as the people's from
    which all redeemtion comes.
  • Antitheist1  - Whoa!
    Strangely enough, I'm a Jew by blood. DON'T WORRY, GLEN! I'LL BRING YOU YOUR
    LADLE-FULL O' REDEMPTION!

    I'm not seeking redemption from anyone! I've done that, and am doing that for
    myself! I seek no justification! Rationalle gives all the justification I
    need.

    I just LOVE how you keep 'Solving the problem' of atheism. I'm still an
    atheist. You obviously haven't solved a thing. If you had, I'd be assimilated,
    Borg-like, into your collective, now wouldn't I?

    But keep trying! Your material is pure gold for my stand-up routine!
  • Glen
    You are sealed and I am not trying to unseal you. It is not my job. But thanks
    for giving me more info on your condition. Just so that you know...I did not
    solve the problem Jesus of Nazareth did. You are just too blind to comprehend
    it. ANd nothing will open your eyes. I really don't wish for you to be saved,
    but Jesus does. And that is the truth. It is not my butt on the line. So have
    at it son. Knockourself out.

    Your rationalle gives you justification. lol. Of corse you are not seeking
    redemtion. No one is. That is why Jesus was redeeming while people were right
    in the middle of killing Him. Jesus did for us what we don't understand we need
    and then He gave it to us as a gift. Don't forget gifts can be returned.
  • Antitheist1  - Information...
    I haven't hid anything about my past. I've answered all questions put to me,
    and honestly. Don't think for a second that getting information out of me is
    some sort of coup.

    And you think that justification comes from...irrational positions? I use my
    head, then I make a decision, and I act on my decision. The 'thinking' part of
    the equation justifys the 'doing.'
  • Anonymous
    Justification comes by Faith in Jesus of Nazareth and any righteousness I have
    is a gift given to me and is God's righteousness not mine. Please read the book
    of Romans.

    Justified by faith righteousness is a gift.

    Always remember gifts must be accepted in order to have them and they can also
    be rejected.

    As far as me thinking that justification comes from irrational positions all I
    can do is laugh.
  • Suzie  - Sad
    So sad that you don't have an incredible love for a person that, just like you,
    God has an incredible love for. That probably breaks His heart...
  • eisoj  - atheist test
    I read the brochure 'the atheist test' which i believe was adapted from the book
    'God doesn't believe in atheists'. I have to admit it made me giggle. How can
    anyone honestly pass this off as being insightful in any way? I mean, I've never
    come across such a blatant insult to the human intellect. The agruements are so
    transparent, contadicting or just plain weak. Some of the arguements can easily
    be spun around and used against christanity, so in effect the author is his own
    worst enemy...
    Only chritians could find any wisdom in this book because they've spent their
    lives listening to this twisted logic and actually think it makes sense. If you
    wanted to convince an athiest of God's existence prove it through nature or
    science or God forbid logic. Not ridiculous nonsense about the banana being an
    'athiest's nightmare' WTF? tapered at the ends for easy of access, shaped for
    the human hand, changes colour depending on ripene...
  • Antitheist1  - Well...
    ...I gotta admit that Ray Comfort is a good public speaker. The 'Banana Shpeel'
    WAS funny! If entirely non-sensical. That said, I'm convinced that religious
    people actually make their arguments poor ON PURPOSE! If their rationalle was
    rational, then everyone would follow it, and the whole point of belonging to
    x-sect would be defeated! You can't be part of the 'in-group' if everyone
    belongs to it, now can you?
  • Scott  - The proof of the message's validity is ...
    in the atheists' fear of what God (through Ray) might be able to say and prove
    in just 54 pages. If the consequences weren't so serious, it would be truly
    hilarious!
  • Antitheist1  - YES! I'M AFRAID!
    Which is why I've run so far from it. And I found it hilarious, regardless.
  • Junno  - Volunteer
    i want to help distrubute this powerful information to my college & any local
    ones in my area. so please send me the contact info necessary to participate
    with this movement about the true Origin of Species, thank you sincerely John.
  • Antitheist1  - WWJND?
    Here's a bit of information, well researched and listed with
    citations...consider....



    http://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector#p/u/ 6/zOfjkl-3SNE
  • Antitheist1  - BEHOLD!!!
    Uh...just to show you guys that I'm a normal human being, here's a link to a
    guitar solo of mine, done in acoustic. This is the terrifying face of the
    Antitheist1!



    http://www.break.com/usercontent/2010/1/miyavi-sla p-by-ceevro-1626009



    Again, check for unintended spaces put in by the program.
  • Glen  - Guitar
    Anti how long have you been playing?

    I did not listen but I watched. You have a real gift there pal.

    And you're young.



    very cool.



    g
  • Antitheist1  - Guitar...
    I started playing when I was 6, so well over 20 years. There's another flamenco
    tune up there on that site, just look under 'More from this user.' For the
    record, it's better with sound...
  • Antitheist1  - Oh..
    ...and I should say 'Thanx' for the compliment. Thanx!
  • Glen
    I too play. But not as well as you do. I wanted to watch your technique rather
    than be distracted by the sound. It was really cool watch your actions. The
    way you worked the instrument. mayby I'll go back and listen to the sound some
    other time. And I do understand that the reson one plays an instrument is to
    make sound. Really I could almost hear it without the speakers. Some really
    cool open string picking patern(s). What was your tuning for this bit? I am
    guessing open E.
  • Antitheist1  - Nope.
    Standard tuning, dropped down a half-step. The whole thing is actually done on
    only the E and A strings, and the keying isn't all that tough. The percussion,
    on the other hand, took me almost two months to get down, and I still need to
    speed it up a bit.
  • Antitheist1  - OH!
    ...And the same offer applies to you, G-man; if you want to learn how I do what
    I do, I'll set up some e-videos to upgrade your guitar skills, no fee involved.
  • Glen  - Cool
    HAlf step heh? very cool. That's the magic with a guitfiddle. One can always
    change up the tunings.

    Thanx for the offer of upgrading my skills. I must decline. I just don't have
    the time like I use to. Too many other things hold my attention now. So when I
    do get to play a little it is just stuff I already know. I'll learn something
    new once every three or four months or longer.

    I go so long that my wrist hurts from holdin barr chords. I am sooo old. Not
    really 45. Old enough.
  • Antitheist1  - Guitfiddle
    I'm shamelessly stealing that term.

    You know, my first guitar was a Fender 12-string. I'm telling you, that thing
    tore up my fingers to play. Literally. But I played it constantly, until I was
    called up to test for my black belt. I was too poor to afford the fee, so I had
    to sell my guitar to get my black belt. Ever see a black-belt breakin' bricks
    bare-handed while bawlin' (nifty bit o' alliteration, that!)? You woulda seen
    it that day...

    I finally got ahead enough last November to finally buy a guitar worth
    playing...
  • Glen
    Mine was a crappy six string that some guy gave to my sister in an attempt to
    ...well you know. I then bought an Electric guitar form the '80's era; Daion
    guitars Power Mark XX I love it; followed by an Alvarez acoustic followed by an
    Epiphone Les Paul--very recent.

    Anti go look up the Daion guitars online. You won't find lots but there is one
    really good site that I cannot recall. It is a sweet vintage model. Can't
    hardly find them.

    GUITFIDDLE...my dad calls it that. You are welcome to it.

    Playing is all about string action and set-up. Play on!
  • Antitheist1  - WHOOPS!
    Got moved to the top there, and I forgot the citation!



    Prof. Robert M. Hazen, George Mason University. Start with his his course, the
    Joy of Science.
  • Antitheist1  - Blue and Red...
    This is known as the Lorentz factor. E=M(CC). As a source of photons
    approaches the speed of light in relation to the observer, the photons are
    squeezed together (shorter wavelength) resulting in a shift to higher energies
    (towards the "blue" end of the spectrum, for easy explination, but often
    more like gamma in reality). The opposite happens when objects move away. This
    factor goes pretty much unnoticed in everyday life, but it is constantly
    corrected for in particle accelerators, where the streams of particles often get
    compressed at velocities approaching the speed of light. At 1mps, the
    correction is 0.97 to the -10. At light speed, it is 0. Thus objects
    disappear, or do not exist at the speed of light.
  • Glen  - Hmm
    Must be a misuderstanding there. I am quite familiar with red shifted and blue
    shifted light. I thought you were saying they coexisted on opposite sides of a
    galaxy. Same thing as the Doppler effect with sound.

    You lost me at the objects disapering in particle accelerators biz.

    What I don't buy is how you accelerate what is not there. Once you accelerate
    past the 0 correction factor and nothing is there what are you accelerating? I
    am very limited in particle accelerator physics. Got no mo jo there.
  • Antitheist1  - Mojo!
    Yes, there is a measurable red/blue shift on opposite sides of spinning
    galaxies, which we can use to extrapolate the speed, size, and distance of the
    galaxy in question. This is how we get the age of the known universe at around
    14.5 billion years. Yes, the Loretz factor is close to the Doppler effect, but
    takes place at speeds we can't really comprehend. The reduction to 0 at light
    speed is one of the consequences. The other consequence is that the energy
    involved must be infinite at light speed. Past light speed, the energies and
    sizes reverse, so objects can exist faster or slower than light, but not AT
    light speed, meaning there's no way to cross the barrier, theoretically.
  • Antitheist1  - Oh yeah...
    ...what is REALLY strange is that the center of galaxies shift MORE than the
    extremities! This is the tidbit of info that has lead astrophysicists to
    speculate that some 90-95% of the mass of the universe is unaccounted for...



    And you were dead right, G-man; the effect is in fact called the Doppler shift,
    even when it applies to light waves. The Lorentz factor is how one calculates
    for it.
  • jim  - who's the idiot
    I'm sure we all have heard that one should never argue with an idiot,because
    someone

    may be watching who doesn't know which one is the idiot.

  • Mandrake  - Jews
    Do you hate Jews?
  • Antitheist1  - By blood...
    ...I am Jewish. Part of my family came from the Rhineland in Chechoslovakia.
    Only three members of my ancestors made it out before the Nazis killed all the
    Jews in that area. I know nothing of my family history before that time.

    As for antisemitism; no, not specifically. I'm convinced that ALL religions, of
    all stripes are harmful, and that humanity would be better off if we did away
    with such wasteful superstition. Note, this is nothing against the people, but
    rather against the religious beliefs. I do not think that violence is an
    efficient way to solve problems, and I wish no harm on anyone.
  • glen
    Violence is not an efficient way to solve problems yet you are a martial arts
    expert?



    weird!
  • Antitheist1  - Absolutely!
    The martial arts are not systems of fighting. They are systems of stopping the
    violence as quickly as possible in order to get back to peace. The problem of
    violence is one we've not yet solved, but I consider the efforts of martial
    artists to be the longest-running, best-funded, most-expansive, and
    broadest-based scientific study in world history. There is not a single system
    of learning that has not been directly affected by the efforts of those people
    concerned with this study. Everything from psychology to medicine to
    engineering to communications owes many of it's base principles to the martial
    arts, as practiced throughout the world. I'm proud to be considered an expert
    (if not a foremost one) in the field.
  • Glen
    Are you CHuck Norris?



    I'll bet you are!



    I hear even the dark is afraid of you!
  • Antitheist1  - Nope.
    Chuck Norris has gone the way of the christian evangelist, which is his choice,
    though not one I'd make myself.

    That said, I heard he once shot down a German helicopter by pointing at it and
    shouting, 'bang.'
  • Glen
    Norris jokes are great. Love 'em!



    BTW I knew you weren't Chuck. Because he is Christian.



    Good of ya to have a little fun though.
  • Antitheist1  - WOW!
    I go two 'dislikes' on the above post! Man, information is sure problematic!



    For the record, the study in which they showed that chickens have genes for
    teeth also showed that when other genes are activated, they grow tails, and
    thier feathers regress into scales. Wierd, eh? Wonder why they'd have those
    genes?
  • Antitheist1  - Whoa!
    ...and a 'dislike' on this post, too! Someone sure hates DIRECT EVIDENCE THAT
    YOU CAN SEE, NOW, WITH YOUR OWN TWO EYES that chickens came from reptiles!
    Wonder if they'd dislike the theory that LIGHT must come from a LIGHTSOURCE if
    it disproved the creation myth (it does! C'mon, ask me to prove it!)?



  • Glen  - Seriously pal!
    Really? Light must come from a source? Naw! You kidding right? Of course it
    come from a source pal. So let's hear your wonderful little shpeal! I am
    quivering in anticipation of this.

    Show me your wonderful little disproof of creation by telling me that Light
    comes from A Source! A beginning! Tie me up in nots over this pal!

    Chomp! Chomp! That's me chomping at the bit!

    Remember it comes from a source.
  • Antitheist1  - "Let there be..."
    "...LIGHT!" First words spoken in the bible. This states that light
    came before the SOURCES (Sun, stars) which were created LATER. Gen 1:3. Then,
    water, day and night, dry land, fruit trees and herbs. Gen 1:6-13. Now, AFTER
    THAT (remember, plants photosynthesize, which is the definition of a plant,
    which requires SUNLIGHT!)god creates the heavenly bodies and seasons. Gen 14-18
    So, according to the bible, PLANTS, which require sunlight, existed before
    STARS, and day and night occured before there was a SUN, which causes day and
    night.



    Can you follow me, Glen? Plants, day and night, seasons, liquid water, active
    geology. All before there was a sun.



    But don't worry, you can just ignore this one, like you do with any question
    that involves actual thinking. Just keep praying for the demons that have
    obviously blinded me to facts to leave.
  • glen  - Photons
    Your assumption is that a star is required to manufacture a photon. What about
    Chemilluminescence? You can find this process in Lightening bugs. No sun
    involved. Interestingly the enzyme catalyzing the reaction is called
    Luciferase. Get It...Lucifer--ase.

    Conditional arguments can only afirm the anticedant.

    Bible verses: I must go and study these passages then I'll coment on them later
    so be patient.

    off the cuff, the one speaking the light into being, God, comes before the light
    and is therefore the source.
  • Antitheist1  - Chemilluminescence...
    ...relies on atoms produced only in stars during the late-stages of fusion
    (novae). Our sun currently sends little more than hydrogen and helium atoms our
    way, meaning the other elements must have come from elsewhere.



    And I'm glad to give you the time needed for additional comment, however I must
    note that even if plants bioluminesce, they produce nowhere near the amount of
    light needed for photosynthesis, and those fireflies you mentioned weren't
    around until the fifth day, biblically speaking. Geologically speaking, though,
    marine arthropods may have been around before surface plants.
  • Glen
    Again to skirt the issue and the point.





  • Antitheist1  - Right.
    Which is, as far as I'm concerned, that creation simply could not have occured
    in the way the bible states it did. I might accept the idea that the scripture
    is an allegory, but literal interpretations are like stating that 2+2=5.
  • Antitheist1  - And I'm still waiting...
    ...for your well-thought-out refutation here. Remember, if you side with a
    bronze-age textbook here, you refute the sciences of chemistry, biology,
    geology, botany, physics, and simple mathematics. To side with your bronze-age
    textbook, you must admit that you place no stock in what you can count for
    yourself. In essence, if the bible is literally true, you believe that 2+2=5,
    and anyone who doesn't follow your logic is justified in being tortured for all
    eternity.



    So what is it, G-man? Are the KNOWN, OBSERVABLE, RECORDABLE, MEASURABLE natural
    particle accelerators known as supernovae responsible for the formation of atoms
    larger than carbon, or are the people who core antarctic glaciers up to several
    hundred thousand years worth of layers just unable to count past 6000 because a
    bronze-age murderer said so?
  • fixxser  - "Let there be..."
    in our reality or dimension, light was created or appeared. It could have been
    anything else like anti-mater. It describes the species "light" so to
    speak. Creation of waves and/or vibrations. The existence of is what it is
    describing.
  • Antitheist1  - In that case...
    ...quantum theory/big bang theory tend to agree. It appears that 'quanta' are
    the smallest possible subatomic particles, and that they consist of nothing
    but...condensed energy. That energy travels in waves, or creates mass.
    Basicly, the universe consists of nothing but wave energy. I've heard this
    called 'light,' by some, 'tones,' by others. Weirdly enough, they amount to the
    same thing.
  • Glen  - I just noticed
    The first words spoken in the bible were not "Light" they were "let
    there be". Given this ommission error one can then conclude someone is
    speaking about what is not currently there, namely the light. In this argument
    A-1 is attempting to place a light before the existance of its source. It is an
    elaborately constructed falsehood designed to decieve. It does not state that
    light came before the sdources of it. That is really intellectually dumb.
    Speaking into existance the source of the light is what God was doing.
  • Glen  - Citations
    Citaitions please!
  • Antitheist1  - I suppose...
    ...that if you want to argue a point with me, I'll have to ask you to give
    citations as well. If you want to take this into direct scientific debate, I'm
    willing to go there, but I don't feel that submitting every post in APA format
    aids the understanding of the average reader here.



    That said, in your special case, I'll provide citations if you'll do the same
    for me.
  • glen
    So glad to be soo special, gin=ves me warm fuzzies. tahnx buddy.

    Agreed! citations war at hand...Daaa, Da,Da.

    I just want to read the scientific paper that demonsrtate the teeth growing
    outta the critters. and most importantly how they did it!



  • Antitheist1  - For a little fuel on the fire...
    ...here's a prime example of why I find religion harmful (please check for
    unintended spaces...)



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nraknWoes&feature =player_embedded
  • Antitheist1  - SPACE!
    In this case one was put in in front of the = sign. I'd like to believe that
    that's just the program for the blog acting up....
  • kb
    You know, they say we don't have proof there is a God, well, they have no proof
    of evolution! It is still just a theory! And it takes so much faith to believe
    it! And such things as the very obvious design in the world, and things like
    the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics seems pretty obvious which side is more logical.



    You should all read Josh McDowell's book Evidence That Demands a Verdict.
  • Antitheist1  - Thermodynamics...
    ...states that you can't get something from nothing. Where did your deity come
    from?



    Oh. Sorry. Don't use thermodynamics to prove a position wrong if it really
    just proves there is no god.

    As to where the energy comes from for evolution; the answer is "The Solar
    Economy." That's a chapter name in Dawkins book, TGSOE. We got the energy
    from the sun, which is being burned up in a nuclear fireball. The second law is
    not broken by evolution. Try again!
  • Anonymous  - Where did God come from?
    That is an interesting question. God = the ever existing one. Your asking,
    when did the ever existing one begin to exist? The question doesn't make sense.
  • Antitheist1  - Exactly.
    The problem is that there seems to be a start to everything. Noone knows how it
    started. So the religious people answers the question by inserting the most
    powerful and complex thing EVER into the equation.

    I see no reason there has to be such a thing to solve the problem. The fact is
    that neither of us know, but I'm just honest enough to admit it.
  • Glen  - wrong again
    No, the fact is both of us know, meaning you and I, but one has outright
    rejected it; that would be you! As for anonymous, I think he should be included
    in the "I" category not the "you" one. Jesus is god incarnate
    so that there will be not excuses and antitheiset you have already been taught.
    You alreaduy know and you have rejected it. You have sealed your own fate. To
    say "we" don't know is unmitigatedly wrong!

    Finally there is no problem. For you I can see how it is a dilema. It must be
    answered so that you are not responsible for your actions.
  • Antitheist1  - My actions...
    ...are things you know nothing about. I save lives for a living. Praying
    doesn't save lives. Defibrilation does. Condemning doesn't make people feel
    better. Listening to them does. The bible doesn't teach people history.
    Geology does. Religion doesn't help people. Action does.



    DO! Don't hope god will do.



    I'm not a bad person, Glen. I act on what I can see. I see no god. I see
    religion killing people. I see creationism sabotaging science. I see your
    words condemning me for seeing.
  • Glen
    Stop it your making me cry.

    IT is good to see that truth can open the eyes of science

    You cannot see God becasue you are blind. You act on falshoods so all you get
    is falshood.

    Glad you save peole's lives for a living. That ias a very admirable job. Now
    get your butt down to Haiti! RIGHT NOW!! Just kidding. I would be willing to
    bet that you only set the body up to do the saving while you wait and see what
    happens. The body actually does the rest.
  • Antitheist1  - There is that.
    I'd love to go down to Haiti right now. I've already sent a few bucks to the
    Red Cross, but I'm unable to abandon the people who need me here.

    And it is agreed, all medicine can do is provide a body with the chance to heal
    itself. All that Emergency Medicine (my field) can do is keep the body from
    dying long enough to get it to a surgeon, and attempt to make sure it doesn't
    get any worse.

  • donovan  - saving lives
    I think the bottom line here isn't about what we do, and how "good" we
    are. (good compared to what? i ask) the question that i ask is, the lives
    that we save, what are we saving them from? As for "religion" killing
    people, Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. Thant sounds so
    cliche' i know. You can't base the principals of Christianity, (notice i didn't
    use the word religion) on the actions of "man" who is flawed in every
    way imaginable no matter how hard he/she tries.
  • Clark  - Foul
    "I'm not a bad person Glen. I act on what I can see..."



    Okay so let's state the facts about you:



    1. You are a physician.

    2. You charge for your services.

    3. You make people feel better by listening.

    4. You take action.



    As you, I save lives for a living and have an opposite view. Therefore, you
    cannot use the "I am a physician" and thus the "authority" on
    everything position.



    I would also argue that you also take action on things you cannot see. You
    treat common infection empirically, do you not? Did you personally read every
    clinical trial, or did you simply trust Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and the FDA when you
    prescribed that antibiotic? Were you certain the cause of the infection was
    bacterial or could it have been viral? How were you so confident in your
    decision? Was it by clinical proof in each individual patient? Experience?
    Faith in what someone...
  • Antitheist1  - Physician...
    ...sorry, but wrong. I'm an emergency medic. When your heart stops, I show up
    with paddles. When you get stabbed, I apply the occlusive dressings. When you
    have a psychotic episode, I strap you down so you don't hurt yourself and
    others. Then I deliver you to a physician.



    Unlike physicians, I don't have the luxury of 'trying' new prescriptions. The
    bleeding stops, or it doesn't. You can breathe, or you can't. I get seconds to
    get results, and trust me, I can see if what I did worked. Pfizer doesn't
    bother with my ilk.



    BTW, your church leader charges for his services, too! Ray comfort charges $150
    bucks to give you a internet course that shows you how to do his job for him.
  • Pastor D  - Hmmm?
    First let me say to you that your family history at the hands of the Nazis was a
    tragedy that should never have happened. It's a sad example of racism and
    persecution.

    Now I would like to consider this and I'm taking your own words.
    You said, "I see no god." The next time it's windy where you live go
    outside and tell someone there's no wind. You will probably get lock up for an
    "evaluation". You can see the wind, but you do feel and See the effects
    of the wind. Which in turn makes the wind exist. This is what the Christian
    faith is believing without seeing.

    And the other thing I wanted to address is this. You said, "I see religion
    killing people." I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!
    Yes religion does kill people. You ancestors were killed because of their
    religion, many Christians are killed because of their religions. Now here's the
    other side of the coin, some "Christians" ha...
  • Glen  - I'll try you!!!
    Using a law that is inside the coke can to vianly attempt to disprove what is
    outside the coke can. No of corse not. You are only telling me what God's
    creation is 1) able to do and 2) not able to do. This law states nothing about
    what God is nor does it explain what He can do!!!!!!

    Becaus He is outside the coke can, pal!

    And you are still seared!
  • Antitheist1  - The universe...
    ...is a little bigger than a Coke can. However, the laws of physics apply on
    both sides of the can.



    There's still no god. So he can do nothing.



    And I'm still waiting for your explination of radioactive isotope dating
    methods. Where did all those dinosaur fossils come from? If light travels at a
    constant speed in a vacuum, and does that mean that you think that the
    dimensions of the universe are less than 7000 light years? And how would you
    explain the blue/red shift on opposite sides of rotating galaxies? And the
    appendix (I did some research) does indeed aid in digestion. But only for other
    primates, not in humans.



    I'm waiting with baited breath for YOUR explination, based on creationism, of
    these questions!
  • Glen
    Carbon dating is based on an assumtion of the total quantity of C14. Science
    does not actually know how much was made in the beginning. I don't have a clue
    where dino bones came from. It is a curiosity to me. Since God can create a
    star by speaking it into existance do you also think he can create the light in
    between? I am unfamiliar with this blue/red shift on opposing sides of rotaing
    galaxies can you explain or cite a reference? And the apendix does more than
    digestion. did you also find the immune system connection? I think I also
    stated that some scientist suggested than it STORES bacteria for the hind gut.

    smell ya later! baited breath get it?
  • Antitheist1  - Total quantity...
    ...C14 essentially dissapears after about 50-60,000 years (remember, with all
    radiometric dating an error margin of about 1% is the range) and is renewed by
    solar wind in the atmosphere, which is why it still exists (Dawkins, TGSOE) and
    gets taken up by organisms as they resperate and ingest. They stop taking in
    the C14 at the moment of death, thus zeroing the clock and allowing us to date
    the sample.



    I'll tackle blue/red shift next...
  • Glen
    I did not know rocks ate and breathed. Thanks for the info.

    Zeroing the clock at what total amount of carbon14? Does all matter injest the
    exact same quantity of C14? Do I have exactly the same as you? Or even An
    Elephant? Or a Whale or a mouse. Seriously anti. The assumtion is flawed and
    sets the calculation off not because of the total C14 in me but the assumtion of
    the half life.
  • Antitheist1  - Breath of Rocks
    No, rocks don't breathe, and they cannot be used in c14 dating, only organic
    materials can. If you're looking to see if you have the same amount of C14 as a
    whale, then I suppose that it might be worth noting that you also do not have
    the same amount of skin as a whale. Or blood. Or nerves.

    However, pound-for-pound, the ratios would look a lot more similar.

    But you know this. Due to constant rates of decay and replenishment of C14, the
    level remains pretty much constant on the time scales we're dealing with here,
    worldwide. C14 is taken up by organic molecules, and degrades at a fixed rate.
    There's no flaw in the assumption that I can think of. If you can truly point
    one out, please tell me before you publish the scientific paper that will make
    you rich.
  • Glen
    I am not saying the half lif is wrong. It is a calculation and a very wide
    berth is given to it for error. So these guys base the time on a rate they can
    only observe over a very short interval, then guess at the total. 5,730 years
    is the reported half life of C14. No one lives that long. So after that
    interval 1/2 of the total is left. the next 5730 year for 1/2 of the rest so
    that is an even smaller amount gone. It gets smaller and smaller this way. So
    your time scale is all based of these assumptions of rate calculated by
    observation of this decay for an interval of time insignificant to the half life
    itself much less the total decay time. this is a big problem.
  • Antitheist1  - Not really..
    There are other isotopes with half-lives that are much shorter, sometimes even
    measured in pico-seconds. We can observe radioactive decay in various forms,
    and the math is solid. As to error margins; 1% is the average margin of error.
    No, not perfect, but enough to show conclusively that geological time is
    measured in billions of years, not thousands.
  • Antitheist1  - And, well...
    ...the science of dendrochronology (counting and matching tree rings, which IS
    accurate to the nearest year, and sometimes even to the nearest season, and can
    be used without gaps up to 11,000 years thus proving the creationist timeline
    wrong with simple addition) has been used to calibrate the rates of C14 dating,
    giving an independant measurement of their accuracy.



    But you don't want to know that. If counting proves that the bible is not
    literally true, well, I expect that you'll find some way to prove that counting
    is scientifically unsound.



    Perhaps our eyes are tricked by the devil, leading us to count the same ring
    4000 times, which makes up the remaining year, eh?
  • Antitheist1  - OH!
    And could you cite the article on the appendix? I checked through wikipedia,
    then followed their sources...
  • Renato
    In the book Genesis chapter 1 verse 1 and 2 it reads: "In the beginning God
    created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and
    darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the
    face of the waters." There are two theories regarding these particular
    scriptures. The first is what most people believe, that God was creating the
    earth and began to add to what was void and formless. And the second is God
    would never create something void and formless so something must have happened
    prior to it becoming that way.( I tried to explain it the best way I could lol).
    So with that being said, if the earth already had form and was in existence God
    may have already created dinosaurs and other things of such that we still find
    fossils for. Also it would also explain the carbon dating. But like we all say
    no one will know until we meet God. But I kinda agree with the second theory
  • Antitheist1  - Valid...
    ...but therein lies the problem! If theory two is incorrect, then it means that
    the whole story is an allegory, and therefore open to interpretation, and if one
    part of the bible is allegorical, then maybe other parts are, too! You end,
    quite quickly, in a situation where nothing in the bible can be taken without
    interpretation, and the whole thing is little more than a moral tale.

    Which is why it would seem that creationists will look at several hundred
    thousand layers of annual snow-pack in glacier core samples, dinosaur bones,
    plate tectonics, astronomy, and even human structures dating back tens of
    thousands of years and swear up and down that the very things they are holding
    in thier hands are not real: it would make a single item in their storybook
    false, and the whole thing would fall apart.



    Many were the naturalists who refused to even look in Gallileo's telescope,
    because they already knew the instrum...
  • Me!  - Sorry...
    But gravity is just a theory too...
    However, I still observe that when I drop a baby, it falls. And turns into a
    creationist.
  • dj  - Gravity
    Theory? Maybe I've been dropped on my head too many times too, but last I
    checked it was called the "Law" of gravity. Speaking of theories, I have
    a theory that you're comfortable in your sins and don't want to be confronted
    with any Laws that tell you stealing, lying and lust are wrong and you'll answer
    for them some day. Maybe that's your problem with creationists.
  • Antitheist1  - Theory...
    ...that organisms change over time is not a theory, it is an observational fact.
    The theories (yes, there are many) come into play when trying to explain the
    DETAILS of long-term evolution throught the process of natural selection.

    However, I find it worthwhile to note that AAxBB=CC is still listed as a THEORY,
    even though we have never found a right-angled triangle to dispute it's truth.
    Things that are speculative are called HYPOTHESIS. A THEORY must explain all
    available facts, be testable, be repeatable, be disprovable, and make accurate
    predictions. A single, verified failure in the evidence must negate the theory,
    and force it to be abandoned, or modified.



    Yes. Evolution by natural selection is a theory. Still waiting for one fossil
    rabbit in the precambrian to prove it wrong!
  • Antitheist1  - Correction!
    AA+BB=CC. Sorry, must have been tired! Substituted a + for an x.
  • ant
    Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact.

    Source:

    State of Oklahoma. 2003. House Bill HB1504: Schools; requiring all textbooks to
    have an evolution disclaimer; codification; effective date; emergency.
    http://www2.lsb.state.ok.us/2003-04hb/hb1504_int.r tf

    Response:

    The word theory, in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty. It means
    "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation
    for a class of phenomena" (Barnhart 1948). In the case of the theory of
    evolution, the following are some of the phenomena involved. All are facts:

    Life appeared on earth more than two billion years ago;

    Life forms have changed and diversified over life's history;

    Species are related via common descent from one or a few common ancestors;

    Natural selection is a significant factor affecting how species change.

    Many other facts are explained by the theory of evolution as well...
  • kb
    Being an athiest is a very lonely way to live. I feel sorry for them because
    they have no hope. Their souls are empty, and all they have is this life and
    after that what? Darwinism is a very empty religion. If I'm wrong about
    following Christ/God, who does it hurt? And I've been happy and comforted the
    whole time.
  • Antitheist1  - Strangely...
    ...my time involved in cult life was the most lonely and fearful of my life. I
    wasn't allowed to have friends outside the church ('cause they were going to
    hell, and they were gonna be too busy being tortured forever to talk to me in
    the afterlife) and the people inside the church were, well...cult members.

    When religion walks out of churches and begins to force it's skewed beliefs in
    to classrooms, that's when it starts to hurt. Look at Iran to see what happens
    when you let religion run wild (you may not think so, but there are many
    christians who would take over every country in the world, every bit as
    violently and repressively as the most fundamentalist of muslim).

    Religion hurts the world. It braiwashes it's members, and uses violence and
    coersion on those it deems 'heretics.'
  • Happyatheist  - Darwinism and religion
    Since I am an atheist I can probibly give some answers to what you claim in this
    post kb. I would not say that my life is lonely at all, I fill my life with
    friends and family and can generally say im happy with my life. I do not belive
    my soul is empty, Im not even sure there is a soul it might all just be the
    brain making calculations on what is the best action in certain situations and
    that decides how you act and stuff like that. And if souls exist i cant really
    see why I cant have one. What happens after my life I must say i agree, nothing
    and I say that feels fairly good. Everything must have and ending and im not
    sure if i can figure out a more evil curse then etarnal life, the first 1000
    years might be fun but after that comes eternity and eternity after that, and
    eternity after that. You say Darwinism is an empty religion and sorry if im
    sounding a bit tough on you but that is probibly the most ignorant ive ever
    he...
  • angry atheist
    Darwinism is not a religion. being an atheist, means being without religion. and
    yeah, its a lonely life with so much theist in the world
  • Antitheist1  - Sadly...
    ...I have to disagree there. I am not lonely, nor resentful of the other people
    out there who have some kind of faith. Though religion is a harmful and
    wasteful pursuit according to the best of my research, people are still people,
    and many if not most people are wonderful and only intend the best for others,
    even if thier idea of what's best does not agree with the people they intend it
    for.

    The dialogue is why I'm here. It's my hope that understanding and respect can
    be built by discussing differences, and learning how to treat the unknown.

    Atheists are little understood, and much feared. I'm sad to have to report that
    the situation is analogous to the treatment of minority populations throughout
    history. However, there IS hope! History has proven over and over again that
    understanding and communication is the key to peaceful coexistence.
  • NoGodNoChristNoProblem  - @kb
    Darwinism is not a religion but a scientific view. You may have been thinking of
    atheism but that is not a religion either.

    If your beleif is wrong then tell the Amalekites
    (Samuel 15:3) because it DEFINITELY hurt them.

    My "soul" as you put it may be empty by your terms but I don't believe
    in souls either. My life isn't empty and I have hope: Hope that I can make
    things better for other people instead of giving all my money to theiving,
    hypocritical, racist, sexist, homophobic (self-hating), child-molesting,
    soul-soliciting firebrands.

    I admit to all my wrongdoings, both to others and to myself, something many of
    the "divinely-guided" fail to do when caught with the forbidden fruit in
    their mouths. If God is there then he will undoubtedly prefer a genuine
    admission of wrongness come the final judgement than self-justification from
    under a funny hat(see Luke 18:9-14).

    Final p...
  • Brian Bovee  - Anti-theist1
    The anger in your words reveals you. I have tried to have
    "conversations" with many atheists and the one common denominator is the
    anger. What that tells me is that deep down, you know the severity of what you
    are saying and the consequences of it if you are wrong. There is a truth out
    there. I will pray for you as the day the truth is revealed to you will not be
    a good day for you. Reflect on your anger. Use your "wisdom" to figure
    out why you are so bitter and it may just save your soul. God bless you.
  • Antitheist1  - Anger is not wrong!
    Angry doesn't begin to say it! However, I'm pretty sure that my anger is placed
    exactly where it should be.

    And I've had many 'conversations' with christians. The one common denominator
    is that they all 'know' that they're the ones who're going to heaven, while
    everyone else is gunna burn. So who's right? SOMEONE has to be! The
    assumption of correctness does not a right answer make.



    And tell me if that praying of yours does anything. I'm not feeling it on this
    end.
  • Pastor D  - Being honest
    Being a Christian and saying someone is going to hell is a judgment. No one on
    this earth is qualified to judge anyone else. Jesus said, "Judge not or you
    will be judged.

    Here is the basic of true Christian faith:
    Faith, Hope, Love

    Faith in Christ and his sacrifice for us.
    Hope that it is true
    Love as Christ loves us.

    I am sorry that many of you "atheist" are getting are being attacked for
    your beliefs and I am praying for you, not that you change your ways, well
    that's a lie I do pray for that (LOL), but that GOD continues to love and care
    for you, because HE does and will Whether you decide to believe in HIM or not.
  • Antitheist1  - And one more makes...
    ...UH OH! This is the 666th post! Good thing I don't believe in unproven
    things like numerology!
  • Anonymous  - just to break the number
    just because i can!! this is 667
  • Glen  - 1theist
    It is good to see you trying to speak to anti-theist. It wont work He is so
    filled with hatered that nothing is going to break through. Read Hebrews 6:
    4-6. This is the man you are dealing with. He cannot be brought back to
    repentance. It is best to sidestep him and not alow youself to be drawn into
    his agony. He must face this for himself shaking his fist all the way. From
    what I have seen he is sealed. Since he cannot be brought back to repentance
    there is nothing-word or actions- that will bring him into belief. His
    conscience is seared. 1 Tim 4: 1-4.

    Guard yourself. Be alert.
  • Antitheist1  - Let's see...a warning for you...and you...
    Well, after a massive, expensive, and very public campaign to put atheists into
    contact with the people at this website, when you actually meet one, and find
    out that he's got a brain, you suddenly tell people to avoid him. YOU
    HYPOCRITE!

    Did you think that it would be EASY to come face-to-face with an atheist? Did
    you think you would just quote John 3:16, give a big smile, and the atheist
    would just say, "Oh! Well, in that case, I'm one of you now! Control
    me!"

    Did you truly believe that the only kind of atheist out there was one who just
    didn't know (simply not possible on this continent, with today's media)?

    I've read your posts, your literature, even your subsidiary websites. I've
    attended your meetings, even helped in your bread-lines. You've said nothing,
    the entire time. "Faith." Believe with no proof. That doesn't hold
    water for me. What else ya got?
  • Antitheist1  - Great questions there...
    But I have one; how is it that we can activate genes in chickens that appear to
    be vestigal, and they grow TEETH? What possible use could a chicken have for
    the tooth-growing gene?

    Eyes; horrible design! The wiring is IN FRONT of the photo-receptors, resulting
    in a major blind-spot, and not just off to one side! Amino-acids are an
    interesting one, as they need DNA to make, and are needed to make DNA. There's
    a hypothesis being tested now which uses RNA to fill both roles, as it can store
    information AND catalize chemistry to a certain extent, which would fit the
    definition of s self-replicating system. Drop the o2 and you have DNA (check;
    old earth chemstry).

    And I'm still trying to catch that woodpecker!
  • Glen  - Cognomen
    This word means surename or nickname.



    Andy Duchemin (Athiest central)=Andy1968=Anti-theist1=damned by glen1. These
    seem all to be the same poster to me as I run around the globe. I think Sybil
    is a better cognomen.



    Whew, been studying Primary causality. One can fill a library with that stuff.
    Tried to read Aristotle and became tired quickly. Deep, deep stuff in that
    arena. St. Thomas Aquinas apparently was a student of Aristotle. I never knew
    that.

    It taught me this athiests always fall back to arguments and there seems to be 2
    that are central; 1) there is no God-this then negates any points made by
    Primary causality-and 2) I will not have to face a penalty for my choices.

    The Athiest actually blames everyone else never himself. Look at wha Adam said
    to God when questioned by God. He blames first the woman and the God himself.
    It is the same argument.
  • Antitheist1  - Totally off!
    Um, I'm not Andy, sadly. That said, it's good to hear that you've finally hit
    the books on philosphy. I recomment the Encyclopaedia Brittanica Great Books
    set. From Homer to Freud.

    EEEEEENY-WHOooo; You haven't understood a darn thing! 1) The reason that I know
    there's no god, and especially NOT the god of the any religion, including
    christianity, is that a divine, perfect, loving, just being could NOT have
    created a pepsis-wasp. Stephen King couldn't have come up with something so
    sick.

    2)There's no god to blame. I take reponsibility for my own choices, instead of
    blaming the 'will of god' for eveything wrong with the world.

    Your analysis of 'the athiest' is just dead wrong. Back to the books! Tell me
    when you get to Plutarch!
  • Antitheist1  - Oh yeah...
    ...and adam, if he existed, wasn't an athiest. HE was allowed to have evidence.
  • Antitheist1  - oh, and, uh...
    ...I made no secret about changing my name to Damned by Glen1 after you, well,
    condemned me to eternal torture for having read the bible and not believed it.
    I guess that that really goes to show that you don't even read my responses.
    That said, I'm only those two names. I'm afraid that there is in fact more than
    one athiest out here in cyber-space.
  • andy1968  - different
    No Glen we are all different posters. See if living waters can confirm this by
    telling you we have different email addresses when we have to put the contact
    details in. I definately don't know who the other 3 are.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - poster names
    Good Andy. I was hoping you were not anti-thiest.



    Good to hear from you!



    glen
  • Antitheist1  - I GET IT NOW!!
    Now I know why I've been getting the ol' 'fire and brimstone' version of
    christianity thrown at me here (trust me, as a guy who spends much of his time
    debating religion with all sorts of people who've been trying to bring me back
    into the flock for years, harsh words only alienate athiests more...they work
    better on agnostics or people in faith crises); I just read the FAQ section
    here...HAHAHA!!! I can understand why you want it done that way,
    strategically:

    1. Harsh methods attract fewer numbers, BUT

    2. Those that it does attract tend to be easier to control and more reluctant to
    leave.

    3. Further, those it attracts become so swayed that they often bring others who
    care about them into the fold, and

    4. The don't ask questions, just repeat as told.

    Excellent work. Now, how do I bring down a brick wall?
  • Professor of History  - Antitheist 1-I get it...
    I found the best way to take down a brick wall is to take a sledge hammer to a
    lower corner just above the floor level, repeating at the far end of the wall,
    again at floor level. You then pass a length of half-inch steel cable through,
    and shackle the free ends to a 2-ton or better truck. You pull away SLOWLY
    until all the slack is taken out, then put the pedal down, allowing the cable to
    slice through and cause the wall to tumble down from the ends to the center.
    MAKE CERTAIN THE CABLE IS LONG ENOUGH TO ALLOW THE WALL AMPLE ROOM TO FALL
    WITHOUT HITTING THE TRUCK.



    What this has to do with Theology, I have no idea.
  • Glen
    No, no, no anti you gots the high karati to do that. Hiiii, yaa!
  • 1Theist  - bring you back?!?
    Dear Anti-Anything,

    The fact that you appear to think you ever actually were in the flock reveals a
    lot.



    Sorry for calling you a jerk. You probably enjoyed it without even honestly
    considering it (at this point, that's probably way over your head).



    PS- it's not too late to "man-up" and humbly admit to God what a
    selfish, lying and arrogant fool you've been, or face how truly undeserving of
    Jesus' sacrifice you are. His love & mercy are infinately bigger than your
    crimes against Him. He'd welcome your un-earned "return" to the flock as
    He did for all the rest of us. Or, you can keep your blinders on and pretend
    that Truth is a lie and see what happens.
  • Antitheist1  - Manning up!
    You're dead right. I was never a common sheeple. I've also been called a jerk
    more times than I can remember, so what makes you feel that you were special?
    The insult doesn't do it; it needs to be backed up by reason.

    So far, the above post tells me that I'm a)too stupid to realize when I've been
    insulted, b)selfish, c)lying, d)arrogant, e)a criminal, f)a fool, and g)totally
    unworthy. Wow. How is it that I ever find it within myself to resist the
    temptation to follow the philosophy that thinks so highly of me?
  • 1Theist  - been called a jerk before
    Dear AntiWhatever,

    yup.......you do enjoy being called a jerk. And your as "common" a sheep
    as they come. You're just increadibly in denial of it and screaming like a
    spoiled little child as if that would make it disappear. It won't. Neither will
    puttin on an "I'm Not A Sheep" T-shirt.

    You're right about one thing: what I see in you doesn't matter. But what God
    see's does matter. And no amount of your whiny angry kickin and screamin on this
    site will make that not matter (or not be there). I'm sorry for you if you think
    it will. Pull the covers from over your head.
  • Antitheist1  - And the insults continue...
    This time, I've been called 'as "common" a sheep as they come," in
    denial, a spoiled little child, whiny, and angry.

    Bravo!



    I'm only an atheist. Keep proving me right.
  • Renato
    You know i do apologize for all those that do give you the fire and brimstone
    treatment. See the bible says that we have to use wisdom. It is not wise to try
    and compel some one to come to Christ by telling them they are going straight to
    hell if they don't (although it is true). But we should be acting upon
    compassion and praying for you and reasoning with you through the scriptures.
    What is sad is that some many professing christian poster fail to really use the
    Word of God for there witnessing.

    The bible says in Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift
    of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." So if you are a
    sinner sin only leads to death, spiritually speaking (but can also be a natural
    death). But God's gift is eternal life. John 3:16-21 reads "For God so loved
    the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
    should not perish, but have everlasting...
  • Antitheist1  - Free will
    This is an interesting concept, because it supposes that we have a choice in our
    beliefs. The story that goes along with this concept is that making the wrong
    choice will result in the most terrible punishment imaginable. Various people
    throughout history have used this exact tactic. We call it interrogation by
    torture. Tell me what I want to hear, or things will go very bad for you.



    And in looking at how directly that relationship applies, see:Spanish
    Inquisition.
  • Antitheist1  - The whole world...
    ...does not have internet or TV there, G-man. It only seems like it because you
    are richer than almost everyone else. But hey, let them eat cake and play
    x-box!
  • Adam  - Remove the pages?
    That's just a small step down from Nazi book burning. If they're going to take
    any pages out of any book, it should be the pages in science textbooks which
    still contain lies proven wrong years ago. (i.e., embryology, horse evolution,
    vestigal organs, the whole geologic column.) They call us Christians
    brainwashers while they will only allow one side of the argument to be
    presented. Hmmm....
  • Antitheist1  - Removing pages...
    I, for one, thoroughly disagree with removing pages from any text. Or marking
    up texts. Or editing texts. Or adding one's own thoughts to texts.

    I suppose that as the idea was to put out Ray's fire and brimstone message to
    atheists, and since he was paying for it, he can write anything he wants as an
    unauthorized forward to the book he's giving away. Not only would I not stop
    him, I would carefully read the book.

    At which point, I'd ask Ray to prove his point.

    I've done all this. I've gotten no answer, aside from threats of eternal
    torture. And so, with no proof forthcoming, I file the information given in the
    introduction under, "things people can actually be duped into
    believing."
  • Jay  - Self Made God
    That's the problem with spirituality. It's creating a god for yourself. Who
    you're comfortable with. That's why our society is deteriorating. We say
    things like Pornography is ok, if it's kept from children. Drinking is ok is
    you're 21. Gambling's ok if your 18. Everything we do today is to justify
    ourselves and relieve us of our guilt. We're all sinners. Some of us realize
    it and recognize God is the reason for right and wrong. When we do wrong we
    apologize to God. It's like if you saw a friend who was about to get hit by a
    car, but you still had time to save him. Would you stand there and look? Or,
    would you scream and tell him to look out? God, THE God, the only God, is going
    to give us each what we deserve. If we acknowledge Him as God and live
    accordingly, we will go to Heaven.
  • Dave aka lambsev  - age of consent
    Civil law does tolerate much today that it did not a mere 50 years ago. But
    enforcement of law has been poor in some areas forever. Setting age limits for
    drinking and gambling do nothing more than excite interest in drinking and
    gambling in those under age. The real problem is that the doctrine of sin us
    silenced in the church in too many places. The wages of sin?>>>--> death, hell,
    second death, the lake of fire. The way to heaven? Faith, repentence , holiness
    and perfection: all by God's grace, freely given out of the storehouse of
    everlasting mercy and love. Back to the Bible folks. Learn and turn or burn.
  • A Brother  - Accusations of plagiarism
    I am a devout Christian but am pained by the accusations that Ray plagiarized
    from Stan Guffey handout. I have objectively read both Stan's handout and Ray's
    introduction. It certainly appears that portions of Stan's work was plagiarized.
    Ray needs to go on the record to defend these accusations.
  • DJ  - My answer for you Mr. Brother
    I don't think it's necessary to make a formal announcement. If Mr. Guffey wants
    an apology I'm sure he could ask for it. Mr. Comfort paraphrased and used some
    quotes (a short biographical summary of Charles Darwin, consisting of
    information that is widely known and available) relying on 'Fair Use' for
    education purposes. There were a total of over 100 attributions in the notes
    section of the Introduction and this one attribution to Mr. Guffey was missing.
    Where Mr. Guffey got his info is a mystery to me as he didn't attribute his
    source either. I guess he randomly changed enough words to not have to do so.
  • Jack Flackett
    I was on the Berkeley campus when some guy in the center of a circle of bio-chem
    grad students had the book in his hand and was waving it around and shouting as
    his face got increasingly red. Comfort? In the context of where he was he didn't
    make much sense. But that's not what I find so disturbing about all of this.

    I might be inclined to at least listen to someone with such a divergent view
    from my own, except that I find it stupid and abhorrent that these strangers
    have decided that they are sufficiently enlightened to intervene in my spiritual
    life, and assume the voice of God. Do they speak for Him? Do they have
    sufficient understanding and mercy to judge my behavior against, say, their own?
    Anyone who is so eager to spend their time on earth condemning others in the
    name of the divine needs to attend to their own humility and save their
    righteousness for later, when they're really going to need it.

    When t...
  • sublime  - Say Your Peace, Move On
    Tell the gospel the best you can and avoid all foolish discussions or arguments
    not relating to it that will actually get no where.



    The Christian faith isn't 'intellectual' it's 'experiential'. We don't know
    'about' God, we 'know' Him. An example of this would be for me to have eaten an
    apple, then I ask someone what it tasted like, bitter or sweet. Intellectually,
    someone would respond as, "I don't know because I haven't tasted your
    apple." To that I would respond, "Then you haven't tasted my Jesus
    either."



    "Taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusts in
    Him." It has been well said , "The man with an experience is not at the
    mercy of a man with an argument."



    All the arguments about creation, evolution, etc. may not convince a man of the
    truth in Christ; however, an encounter with the resurrected Savior will. He
    gives him a new hea...
  • Antitheist1  - In other words....
    ...there's no proof of god. Right?



    I'd say my piece and move on, if only christians would stop knocking on my door,
    screwing with my children's education, hoarding money while preaching about
    'giving 'till it hurts,' cluttering up my streets with gaudy xmas junk, and
    killing people who disagree with them.



    Until that happens, I can't go away. I'm too busy being chased!
  • Pastor D  - My piece
    1. Shamefully only Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses knock on doors, I mention this
    because their belief is not biblical.

    2. My children has been subjected to education and values other then what I want
    them to learn. They, as Christians, have been subjected to bashing and violation
    of their rights then any atheist's child.

    3. I agree with your statement about preachers who are in it for the money, they
    use GOD'S name in vain for their own selfish gain.

    4. Gaudy X-mas (BTW X is the Greek symbol for Christ) decorations are not
    Christian but stems from Pagan winter solace celebrations. True Christianity
    celebrates the birth of our savior. Not Frosty, Santa Claus or Christmas trees.

    5. Any Christian who kills because of opposition isn't a Christian. The meaning
    of the term Christian means Christ-like. And Jesus never killed anyone so
    neither should we.
  • Jason Scroger  - Clinging to their unbeleif, no matter what
    Take a History and Philosphy of Science course people, read some Karl Popper,
    Ludwig Fleck, Thomas Kuhn, Judith Hooper's Of Moths and Men, Beamtimes and
    Lifetimes by Traweak.

    Dogmatic religion, ie Evolution makes Science into a religion, they worship
    Darwin and anyone who helps them suppress the knowledge of God, the have their
    own initiations ie, getting published, getting Doctorate, They have their own
    Gods, It's just like in the Book of Daniel, when the Fake religious people
    backed out of interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's dream, because he would kill them,
    they know it's a farse

    It's a battle of worldviews, man's worldview is "I don't want there to be a
    God" so I interpret everything in light of that. God's worldview, The
    Bible, tells us everything pertaining to Godliness, and the History and future
    of the Human race.

    I went to University at Buffalo, I have a degree in Geology, and a Masters ...
  • Antitheist1  - Nope. Just nope.
    It would be cool if there was a god. There might be some actual miracles,
    healings, stoppages of violence, and an actual afterlife. That would be nice.

    The problem is not the worship of science, but rather the biaslessness of good
    science. I think there are a lot of people who would dearly love to speak to
    their creator, but despite every attempt (and they have been numerous and
    expensive) god just don't answer.

    So I contend that there either is no god, or that god wants us to live as if
    there was no god.
  • William  - Nothing Created Everything=Everything Was Not Crea
    I can't speak for everyone, but when someone asks "do you believe nothing
    created everyting?", I commonly equate the question with this question
    instead "Do you believe everything was not created?". I'm pretty sure
    there are alot of people that believe that instead. But I doubt there are people
    out there that believe in a literal nothingness that created everything. That,
    according to our comprehension, is seemingly nonsensical.
  • Glen  - Whew wee!
    It's like a rodeo in here! Whew wee! I damned you? PAALEEASE! Not my actions
    they are yours. There is a difference in speaking it into awareness and
    actually performing it. I spoke the word to you. It is you that has been upset
    by truth.

    Exorcism means to cut out something. I have not tried that either. It will not
    work. God has told all of us that a man of your sort is done. Trying to do
    something I know God will not do is not on my agenda. There in no atonement for
    you so casting out a demon will just leave you to be re-demonized.

    I do enjoy you chasing methough. It is a profound testimony to God having set me
    apart. I need to take that a little more seriously.
  • Damned by Glen1  - The ol' switcheroo...
    Funny how it was you saying how much fun it was to chase me a few posts back.
    And no, it's not a god thing, just an athiest seeing what it takes to back you
    into a corner...



    On that topic; The bible says god created the earth twice, mentions 15 apostles
    and claims there were only ten, and claims that the same god who drowned the
    entirety of the planet is merciful. These are obvious contradictions. How can
    you claim the bible is a perfect text?
  • Glen  - twice
    Nice try but scientific journal articles have a section called an abstract
    followed by the rest of the article. The absrtact gives a quick and fast
    overview while the rest of the peper provides the details. Two seperate
    sections one story. And you call this type of whitting into question? Please,
    anti-theist. You are quite evil. You lies compound themseves.

    Look up the definition of an apostle. It is also in the book of acts. Given
    this definition there were a great many more apostles than 15.Nice try but not
    too well informed.

    Judgement; you claim a God that eliminates the wicked generation while sveing
    the righteous to be unmerciful. Again uninformed.
  • Barley  - Glen1?
    Whoa. What corner? Would you care to supply scripture references for your
    allegations of contradictory statements? Regarding the flood, God warned Noah,
    and saved him and his family from the self destruction their manner of living
    was leading the rest of the world to. Understanding the culture, you would have
    recognized that God said He would bring the flood, idiomatically, means, HE
    allowed it to happen. Ie, God will allow you to jump off of barn and you take
    your chances on whether you live or not. The truths of the Word of God are
    simple and always accurate, however, sometimes it takes more digging than a
    cursory reading to see it.
  • Glen  - A.T.
    No threat.
  • Damned by Glen1  - There absolutely was!
    You damned me! Confined me to eternal torture and said it was justified!
    Claimed I was possessed! Even tried an e-excorcism on me (I'll have to ask Ian
    Punnet about how that's really done...)!



    I'm just an athiest!
  • Antitheist1  - Hey, let's try...
    ...the cargo cult of John Frome. He's only supposed to have been around half a
    century ago...and yet, noone can seem to figure out if he ever existed!
  • andy1968  - John Frome
    And there are people still natives waiting for his return just as Christians are
    waiting for Jesus. There may be a long wait in both instancies.



    Andy
  • Damned by Glen1  - A hypothesis...
    I'm just wondering if maybe the cargo cults don't have it right? Wouldn't it be
    a bite to all those christians out there to end up by the pearly gates and be
    told, "We're so sorry! You heard about John Frome, and rejected his
    teachings! Now not only do you have to go to hell, but your future generations
    will get no cargo!"



  • Ellen Albert
    I understand you might not agree with Darwin's evolution theory and have your
    own beliefs on the subject, but it is not appropriate to state these ideas in
    the introduction of the Origins of Species. Please continue writing your own
    books instead if you would like to spread your message.
  • John B. Williams  - Freedom
    You have an absolute right to believe anything you want to believe, and a right
    to spout whatever gibberish you wish, with the possible exception of yelling
    "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. But, you . . . are . . . insane.
  • Antitheist1  - Um...
    ...just who were you responding to there, dude?
  • daisyray  - It's still not obvious?
    Just a comment on the "book burning" comment. Really? They want to burn
    a book, but I'm sure they have nothing to say about pornography and violence.
    How about burning that. This world never seizes to amaze me with ignorance.
    Don't people know right from wrong?Don't people know what is good? If we lived
    as God asks of us, all of us, would we not all be happy? If I was selfless and
    you were selfless and he and she were selfless who would suffer? If I loved you
    and you loved me and he loved us and we loved him, who woud be unloved? Is this
    not happiness? Is this not what God tells us to do? When we do the opposite are
    there not consequences? I don't care what anyone says, when you do right, right
    is done to you. Even if you are wrong do you not feel good that you did the
    right thing, if not then maybe you are lost. Why hurt other people? why have
    anger? why lie, steal, cheat? does this feel good? NO! Unless you are possess...
  • andy1968  - daisyray
    Agreed daisyray but is this how the world really works? There will always be
    that guy who wants to make a quick buck. This is what keeps us on our toes, if
    we all thought the same we would be in troule. People have different opinions
    and we have to live with those opinions. We all don't believe in a god.



    Andy.
  • Anonymous
    There will always be that guy that wants to do evil to me so I gotta do it to
    him first. Andy your statement is not close to what daisyray is saying. people
    will has differing opinions after satan has been removed; sin with him. The
    difference is that men will no loger sin as a result. The world operates as t
    you pinted out becasue men love sin over God. This is the reason. You will
    never see that.
  • Damned by Glen1  - A-
    There's no god or satan. They don't exist. They're stories! People act as
    they do because natural selection favours the competitive. Any animal will
    cease any opportunity to survive longer and procreate more, often by any means.
    We humans seem to have gotten just smart enough to realize that we can survive
    and procreate more and longer if we make and follow rules that are good for
    everyone. What you call sin, I call breaking the rules. It's how one gains any
    kind of unfair advantage. But that's just one of the rules; life ain't fair.
  • NG  - English Police
    Sheesh!! Grammar anybody?? Joust because yore spiel chequer do not kitsch a ward
    dues not mien yow used the write one.
  • Andre  - A Reformed Atheist
    I can relate to all the atheists here because I was one for many years, but the
    reality of the matter is, and this goes for some Christians as well - you're
    trying to prove the existence or nonexistence of God through intellectual means,
    which is a severe limitation at best.

    There is no thought or concept that can impact a nonbeliever, much the same as
    no nonbeliever can impact a true believer into doubting the existence of the One
    True Almighty Creator.

    In the same fashion, no thought or concept can do justice to the Greatness of
    our Holy God. To believe you have a perfect understanding of God, is to have Him
    in a box - an impossible feat.

    As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Fortunate for nonbelievers there is a
    method by which God can be known, but ask yourself: If you could know God and
    who he is, and what his plan is for mankind, would you really want to know? Or
    would you rather stay ignora...
  • Antitheist1  - All that shows...
    ...is that there is no need for religion. As you say, none of the people in
    those religions understand it, and if they do, there's no way to explain it. So
    sell the property of those religions and start using the billions of Euros to
    actually help some people.
  • Glen  - Oh I just could not resist!
    Pedant-ic: Mired in minutia. That's the way I say it.

    dictionary says: 1)ostentatious in one's learning. 2) Overly concerned with
    minute details or formalisms esp. in teaching.

    My favorite: Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book
    learning and formal rules.

    Ostentatious=grandiose. To atract attention by trying to impress others.

    Since I have been called this thing multiple times I thought it important to
    make known what is trying to be hidden. Decide for yourself.
  • Skitz O'Fuel
    Fire breathing dragons have been used in art and literature for thousands of
    years. Many "modern" stories, films, and artworks contain fire breathing
    dragons. Does this prove "historically" that fire breathing dragons
    exist?

    Doesn't the fact that we all have similar equipment point directly to the fact
    that ALL living things have evolved from common ancestors?

    The removal of intelligence doesn't get sticky at all. Take the experiments done
    on black bottle flies. These flies move along the water with the use of their
    wings. When you cut the wings in half, the fly can still move across the water
    but slower. When you cut the wings again, to a mere nub, barely a flap, the fly
    can still move across the watter BUT slower. This reverse look at evolutionary
    process shows what the use of a full wing, half a wing, AND a thing that cannot
    be called a wing.

    Use yer brain.
  • Glen  - Nope
    It is not surprising that all life on planet Earth share all things in common.
    It would be quite different if they did not. For example, critters using copper
    in place of iron in hemoglobin or use of slicone rather than carbon. But they
    don't. Water is a very interesting molecule; it doesn't obey the rules. Rogue,
    kinda like me. Water is most dense while it is still a liquid.
    Counterintuative don't you agree? Now I don't have wings, did not develope them
    during fetal development and I did not need to use a pair of evolutionary
    scissor to cut them off. The scissors trick is not a revese look at evolution.
    Chickens and turkeys have full foliage and still cannot fly.I would urge you to
    use your brain.
  • brad  - get your facts straight
    Glen- Get your facts straight. Not all life shares all things in common. Not
    even close. Many non-chordate animal species do not have hemoglobin, but
    instead a copper-containing protein called hemocyanin which carries oxygen in
    their "blood." Silicone (not slicone) is a rubbery synthetic substance
    used in breast implants. Silicon, the element, is used by dinoflagellates in
    making their shell. Water obeys all the rules except the one you mentioned.
    Plants, fungi, and most microorganisms have some sort of cell wall; animals do
    not. All eukaryotic organisms have intracellular organelles; prokaryotic
    organisms have none. So no, I don't find your arguments counterintuitive. I
    find them ignorant. Now, admittedly this black bottle fly experiment is the
    lamest of scientific arguments in favor of evolution. However, genetic
    evolution happens all around us every single day. That's how we still have
    influenza epid...
  • Glen  - Finally
    Hey Brad finally someone that is smart talks. Not ignorant pal just setting up
    conversation. No I am fully aware of haemocyanin. Just testing the waters
    here. I use silicon all the time (diatoms). Just again testng the waters here.
    Water, is the most awesome mollecule created! It is really neet! It responds to
    microwaves. Nuttin' else does. That's how he heat our lunches these daze.
    Counterintuative in regards to water alone, sorry. H2S does none of these
    things, just stinks. No to the influenza thing. Do you no how this virus
    actually crosses the species barrier? Are you aware that it has 7(?) seperate
    pieces of DNA that must assemble together to create a viable virus particle?
    All that has to happen is two vuruses getting into the same host to shuffle the
    deck and make a viral strain to infect another species. This is not a mutation.
    And I am not really arguing here nor Am I really trying to convince the
    unco...
  • Antitheist1  - Oooooh!
    So Glen here's a biologist who actually believes in Creation? How can you
    possibly reconcile the two? Genuinely curious here...
  • Glen  - OOOOOOOH!
    How could you not? THe evidence is overwhelming!
  • Damned by Glen1  - The evidence consists of...
    ...a storybook. If that qualifys as overwhelming evidence, then there must be
    gingerbread houses where witches fatten up abandoned children for food...
  • Antitheist1  - Microwaves...
    I rather doubt that you'll be reading this far down, but it seems to be worth
    noting that water responds to a narrow band of microwaves, and that EVERYTHING
    responds to different frequencies of energy waves, in a principle called
    'harmonics,' (I'm a musician as well, remember? I utilize harmonics all the
    time!). There's a quantum theory out there that postulates the idea that the
    'base' particle is actually nothing more than a wave, which could be defined as
    a note. There are seven 'notes' which would coincide with the musical octave.
    Quantum theory just might be explained with a guitar (Meatloaf would LOVE that
    one!).
  • Zeromus  - duh ok boss.
    maybe you didn't develop wings in fetal development, but you did have a tail.
    Just like all us humans that evolved.
  • Antitheist1  - Hey, another smart un!
    Zeromus- we also had gills during embyonic development. For all intents and
    purposes, pretty much every animal starts out looking like nothing more than a
    minnow or tadpole. We also start out with flippers. The process that cuts out
    the webbing between our fingers and toes is called "apoptosis" or
    programmed cell death. This is when the lysosomes (convenient sac of poison
    located in every cell for the purpose of suicide) burst. Interestingly, a
    friend of mine is investigating the plausibility of causing apoptosis in cancer
    cells, with some pretty promising results.
  • it needs to be said  - Please Try and learn
    im a university student in australia and i believe that comforts alteration is a
    perversion of a solid and generally accepted scientific theory. but i do not
    blame him because from what i can see the majority of anti-evolutionary thinker,
    do not have a firm grasp on how evolution ocures. firstly the statment made that
    it is a random event, i find very amusing because and chemist religious or not
    could tell you elements strive to become as stable and ordered as possible often
    forming compounds. some of the most stable of these although comlex are RNA and
    protines. these compounds are very similar to modern lifes DNA.
    but don't misunderstand although i don't believe in god i have read the bible
    cover to cover as well as many other religious texts. (i attened a chistian
    school).
    but on to more in portant things this kind of perversion would never stand in
    australia, you americans pride yourselves on free speach, but none of ...
  • Glen  - really?
    Isn't all of this stuff temperature and pressure dependent? At the temps found
    on the sun do Complex Compounds exist? What about the vacuum of space? Any
    complex DNA's there? Stability is relative.
  • vanessa  - b/s
    ATTN: Ray Comfort: It's not your "idiotic claims" as you've called it
    yourself that people are upset about, it's the fact that you totally basterdized
    the work of a great mind for a cheap publicity stunt. Why couldn't you just
    write your own book? Why rape Darwin's book? You're completely dirty for what
    you did.
  • J  - "God" is "great"?
    I love how so many current theists like to attribute Hitler's actions to some
    imaginary link to Darwin. I find it quite amusing that these theists have (for
    the most part) never even read Hitler's own words in Main Kampf where he stated
    that the intention for "cleansing" Germany of the Jewish population was
    due to them "killing our savior" (Jesus Christ) and that he even had the
    full support of the Vatican for many years up until the allied forces fully
    formed (with America joining in) to oppose him.

    So, the Catholic Church supported the genocide of an opposing faith's people yet
    somehow Charles Darwin is who you lob stones at? Please... You lot are ignorant,
    uneducated and unaware of the world around you. The simple fact that you are
    fighting to try and spread your word alone is evidence of this. Notice how
    atheists and agnostics don't come calling on you forcing their non0belief upon
    you? It's all o...
  • Professor of History  - J-"God" is...
    You understand what the word "propaganda" is. The Nazis invented it,
    made it a government Ministry. Hitler understood the concept of scapegoating,
    and how people tend to look to others for blame, so they can focus their angers
    and frustrations away from themselves, avoiding blame. He also said often enough
    when firmly holding power that he did not believe in God as some sort of dead
    Jew. He was a politician--say what folks want to hear to get the power you want
    to have.
  • Antitheist1  - Sadly, Prof...I must correct you here...
    If you look into well-preserved Roman cities/villages (Pompeii is especially
    good, but there are others around Vesuvius) you would know that propaganda has
    been going for thousands of years (I especially like how the "thieve's
    guild" promotes political candidates...man, the USA apparently learned from
    the best!) in pretty much any place that we have writings from. Egypt, Sumeria,
    Greece, etc. From what I've seen of history, the first thing people do when
    they learn to write is make a calendar, then write "Ptolemy sucks,"
    underneath it.
  • Ryan  - A disappointment.
    I received a copy of this book in hope of seeing a sound argument against
    evolution. Sadly, I read it and realized that Ray Comfort is grossly uninformed
    in the theory of evolution. He talks about things that are false, but evolution
    doesn't claim. Like everything came about by chance. He also quote mines, ending
    a quote half way to make his point, but the end of the quote disproves what he
    is trying to say. I gladly handed out material provided by the National Center
    for Science Education, which provided information that easily debunked a good
    bit of Comfort's idea of an argument. Please take a look at:
    http://www.dontdissdarwin.com/resources/comfort_fl yer_final.pdf
  • Anonymous Rex  - Why you actually stopped commenting.
    The reason you actually stopped commenting on your opening statement is the same
    reason why Michael Behe and all the other proponents of Intelligent Design stop
    getting into arguments with actual scientists (not all of whom are atheists by
    the way, I happen to be agnostic.)

    Because you lose the arguments, and are made to look foolish, and are forced to
    concede how completely silly you sound, much as Clarence Darrow was completely
    trounced by William Jennings Bryan during the Scopes trial.

    Your arguments fall apart under scrutiny. They do not stand up to logic.
    And the very idea of "Intelligent Design" must mean that god is a very
    very stupid creator, if you know anything about biological systems (and I am
    certain you do not), like placing ATP pumps between membranes of cells, which
    can easily be explained through evolution.
  • Glen  - Stand up to logic
    Ha, Ha A.R. A for a stupid creator and biological systems..Hmmm I would think
    that you would be better informed. Biological systems are so complex. So
    overly complex a non-thinking system such as evolution could not design, invent,
    come up with, support, (insert your word here ____)such incredible complexity.
    The very fact that you claim to be intelligent and have knowledge of biological
    systems is an indicator that something smarter than you had to design it. As it
    is, not even you know all about ATP pumps in the membranes. I imagine cessation
    of comments is due to the wall syndrome. One can talk to a wall all day and
    nothing will happen.
  • Eupraxsophy  - Stand up to who's logic? Yours?
    Science may not exactly be able to explain the complexity of life or even the
    universe, but at least they are objective as opposed to being doubtful. Unlike
    creationism or it's dressed up name Intelligent Design, evolution has been able
    to explain with logic many of life's questions about it's origins. Just 2 years
    after Darwin published his book On the Origins of Species in 1859, the
    Archaeopteryx was found.

    This substantiated piece of evidence well supports evolution and contradicts any
    belief in creationism. And 150 years later evolution has gain ground on other
    pieces of evidence and

    other sciences to support it, like biology,

    geology, paleontology, genealogy, as well as

    other transitional fossils such as the Anchiornis-huxley recently found in China
    and

    let's not forget about chimpanzees sharing

    99.4% the same chromosomes as humans.



    So now let's look at the logic of creationism

  • andy1968  - wall syndrome
    I agree with your wall syndrome Glen. It is like talking to a wall on both sides
    of the argument. However, biological systems were created by something smarter
    than people - evolution by natural selection. Natural occurances are smarter
    that us humans and god dare I say - this is where evolution is misunderstood.



    Many thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - LOL
    Natural occurences are smarter than humans? Andy you'd better watch out for
    lightening!



    Wew! Man I'm funny!
  • Antitheist1  - AAAAAAAaand..
    G-man goes back...Waaaaaaay back...and he's...yes!...he's pulling out...ANOTHER
    THREAT!!! AND THE ANGELIC HOSTS GO WILD!!!!
  • Glen  - Wrong again!
    Anti, no pal this is what is known as a joke. Althought totally lost on you. I
    am sure Andy go it. He has a very good sense of humor. Although i have hope for
    Andy because he has not reject the Holy Spirit. He claims athiesm to be his
    belif patter but as far as his posts have stated he has not yet tasted the
    goodness of the Lord. So there is still hope for him. And the Angelic hosts
    will go wilde for him should he choose God's way; ie. Jesus.
  • Jaeh
    I just really don't understand what's with them these days. I mean, if they
    don't think we're telling lies and are not for real and are not a threat to
    anything, they should just let it be and let us show our alleged stupidity.
    (thank God we don't get atheists like these in the Philippines - makes
    witnessing a wee bit easier, lol). I mean, just... I guess if we're working to
    share God, others are just working to go against Him, too.

    Keep up the Good and great work, people! Be the light ^^
  • Jim Jones  - Regarding Hitler
    * Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of
    the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the
    work of the Lord.."
    *
  • Damned by Glen1  - Nuff said there...
    ...Well quoted!
  • Fmcdowell
    Glen God bless you
  • Believer  - Reasoning
    I am a believer in God as well as evolution. Why not think of evolution as a
    means of creationist process designed by God? Besides, lets dissociate Darwin
    from Evolution. Darwin does not own "evolutionary concept". He was the
    first to propose it and later many other scientist have worked on it for 150
    years. So Darwin's beliefs, personal views have nothing to do with the theory of
    evolution. If Hitler had believed in Christ does that make Christianity evil?
  • Anonymous
    "Intellectually bankrupt people are

    spouting off just like you all the time"



    Hehe - you are digging big holes here and calling someone intellectually
    bankrupt is pathetic.



    Why is it then do you think that only 7% of scientists have a faith-based
    belief...?



    Do you consider almost the entire scientific community to be "intellectually
    bankrupt"...?



    Your egotism is laughable.



  • Glen  - Pathetic
    THanx man. I love not fittin' inn with your type. And I am not pathetic. 7% of
    scientists are unblinded by the works of thier own hands. That is about right!
    Jesus tells us that the road to destruction is wide and that MANY will go that
    way. I rejoice for the 7% that are able to see that this place cannot come
    about by unthinking mechanisms and theories. I consider the vast majority to be
    intellectually blinded and that is what makes them bankrupt. In the end they
    have nothing. I would be cautios about spouting egotism if I were you!
  • Antitheist1  - Whoa!
    And G-man pulls out yet ANOTHER THREAT! Sure God's proud!
  • Donny  - Hey
    Hopefully I can read this book one day! I'm in Australia. Praise the Lord for
    His greatness. And may many be saved.
  • dave aka lambsev  - wise move
    A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on,
    and are punished.Proverbs 22:3
  • Gary Murray  - ...read it...originally breathed...
    I'm curious as to whether Ray or anyone in his outfit has ever read THE ORIGIN
    OF SPECIES. I'm even more curious as to what you feel about Christians that
    fully accept the fact of evolution. Yes, they exist. From common blue collar
    believers to the Pope. Evolution is a fact. It does not try to explain where
    everything came from. It merely explains how life has changed and arrived at ths
    point. The "beginning of everthing" question is one for cosmologists to
    theorize and eventually answer. If you want to argue, argue with them. But I
    must focus in on the point of how disgusted I am that you manipulated Darwin's
    book for you own gain, and moreover, your cowardly attempt to try to convert to
    your particular way of thinking. Yes Darwin was an atheist. He never denied that
    in his later life, but when ORIGIN was written, he still believed, or tried to
    believe and even included his Deistic views in the closing paragraph. Perhap...
  • Paul Cooley  - Answers
    1. Of course we can not prove that Jesus existed, just as we can not prove any
    historical fact other than the records of eyewitnesses. This is exactly what the
    bible claims to be, along with multiple other non biblical references to Jesus
    or Christians. So we actually have more 'proof' of Jesus' existence than say
    Julius Ceaser, given the amount of manuscript evidence in existence.
    2. Simple, common designer equals common traits. You mistakenly believe that the
    evolutionary explanation can be the only one. God bless.
  • Drea  - A Bible Lesson Incognito
    I was on my university campus waiting for a cup of coffee when I saw someone
    handing out free books. Interesting, I thought, but not really interested. Then
    I saw Darwin's unmistakable beard and thought, No way! I ran to the distributor
    of the books and got excited as I saw the title, "Origin of the Species
    (with a special intro)." Ok, we'll see what this intro is about. Maybe it's
    discussing Darwin's research in-depth!

    After a few pages however, I realized that I had been duped into reading what
    was basically a Bible lesson (and rant) in disguise. I was upset to read that
    the author of the introduction was bashing Darwin's character while Darwin's
    real work was just a few pages away.

    I'm also angry that Ray Comfort has deceived people by giving free books under a
    guise of scientific inquiry by pushing his religion in unsuspecting people's
    faces. Who is he to say whose religion is better and why? I sugg...
  • Doug  - Where were you?
    I live by one of the Universities where these books were going to be
    distributed, but I never saw anyone handing them out! Now how do I get a copy?
  • Rev. Marvin Davidson
    Did not god give us the greatest gift of all; The gift of a reasoning,
    inquisitive mind?

    Did he mean us not to use it?

    I think not.

    Given that, it seems rational to me that science has always been about
    discovering the nature of things hitherto unknown.

    That the nature of the universe is included in science should come as no
    surprise, considering god gave us the capacity to explore it.

    Science is not the enemy of religion, it is the opposite.

    Today's religious viewpoints are radically different than those of the past,
    proof that even religion evolves.

    The very existence of Christianity and Islam is proof, since they both evolved
    from Judaism.

    If we except the fact that religion evolves, we must except the fact that we as
    humans don't know everything.

    We likely never will know everything, but we are constantly learning more every
    day. It is this incre...
  • CD  - Simply a point in History
    I think students should be exposed to both the story of Creation and the science
    of Evolution. Intelligent minds can deciper the fact from the fiction.

    Kirk, it's neither an accident nor a tragedy that so many Professors in our
    Universities claim to be athiests. Before you write any more intro's on the
    subject, perhaps you should broaden your own thinking by reading a few more
    books.

    I'm a well educated, highly spirtual man who believes in an all loving God.
    Those that fear God and His "wrath" are part of a shrinking segment of
    our culture's spritual development. The not to distance future will look back
    on these beliefs as a point in our history.

    This is not a bad thing. It's simply an "is" thing.

    CD
  • andy1968  - CD
    Interesting comments CD; would it be possible for you to explain why you
    yourself have not become an atheist? Why is it that your increased knowledge
    base has not led you to see that there is no God? I am intrigued about why you
    remain spiritual about a diety and wonder if this is not an awe about science
    that gives you this spirituality?



    Many thanks Andy.
  • glen  - Fallacy
    CD, you are absolutely right! Those that will be saved are a shrinking
    population. CD, you cannot say you believe in GOD and not also belive in His
    wrath. If you do as you have said you are a liar. God is not in you and you
    are not saved from the coming judgement. Andy1968 is also a liar. That is why
    he likes what you say. You both speak the same language.

    rethink your situation before you perish in the lake of fire. You claim
    intelligence but cannot decifer fact from fiction.

    Hello Andy I am still here buddy and you are still lost.
  • davee  - Is turn about fair play?
    I wonder what would happen if someone distributed bibles with a fifty page anti
    biblical rant at the beginning. hmmmmmmmmmm
  • andy1968  - davee
    An anti-biblical rant would probably take 500 pages davee.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - try again
    Andy, it would take more than 500 pages to fill several thousand years worth of
    ranting. Up you anty buddy!

  • Antitheist1  - I thought I was!
    All the rant needed is, "Religion kills people, and must be abolished for
    the good of all."
  • Glen  - Ranting
    Hey feller, I have yer answer. The very same thing that has been happening
    since God created this place. Bla, Bla, Bla.
  • Joe Shmoe  - yeah...
    I think this is the worst idea ever. It's obviously another scam for money by
    this whorehound preacher. Christianity fails again.
  • Tom  - My message to Ray Comfort, to which he did not res
    Here is my message to Ray Comfort, to which I received a reply that I should
    post it on this blog, as Ray moderates it himself. So here you go, Ray;

    To Ray Comfort;

    Greetings,

    In your statement on your website concerning the distribution of your 54-page
    "Special Introduction" to Charles Darwin's The Origin of Species (sic.),
    with Darwin's full text appended, you quote Darwin as follows; "Darwin
    himself said, 'A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing
    the facts and arguments on both sides of each question.' -- Charles Darwin,
    Introduction to On the Origins of Species (1859). Ray Comfort"

    After a recent encounter with one of your followers, I am compelled to respond
    directly to you, particularly, and ironically, in light of the above Darwin
    quote...

    Ironic that you chose this quote, which refers to the importance of "fully
    stating" the fa...
  • Skitz O'Fuel  - the Comedy of Christ
    I will believe in your god when you can prove with undeniable historical facts
    that Jesus actually existed.

    I will deny the theory of evolution when you can explain to me why there are
    obvious, physical attributes that many living creatures share such as eyes,
    lungs, blood, brains ect. in the context that your god created man in his own
    image.
  • Paul  - Jesus did exist!
    You ask for undeniable evidence that Jesus existed. How about the largest
    religion in the world? Show me ONE other religion who's founder never existed.
    It's silly to believe that Christianity exists upon a fictitious Leader. That's
    no logical.

    Common design is proof of a Creator, not a random, thoughtless process called
    evolution. It's logical to ask the evolutionist that if nothing had ever SEEN
    before, why did evolution "create" eyes. How did it KNOW there was such
    a need? You see how sticky it gets when you try to remove intelligence? It's
    the height of absurdity to claim that the human eye could come about by chance.
    But the hero "Mr. Time" makes all things possible (even the obviously
    impossible).
  • Different Paul
    Just because Christianity is the largest religion in the world does not mean
    that god actually exists. But, that all depends on one's definition of
    existence. Physically, in my opinion, God does not exist. However, God CAN
    exist if you truly believe that he does. Fully convincing yourself that there
    is a god makes you believe that it is true despite the absence of evidence.
  • andy1968  - Paul
    Concerning eyes Paul you said how did evolution know there was a need for eyes.
    But that's the whole point of evolution - it didn't know. But species that
    evolved a primative eye gained an advantage and that's why they survived and
    passed on their genes to make eyes - there is no purpose. It's extreamly simple.
    It's not by chance it's by natural selection, you're completely looking at it
    from the wrong angle. If you want to see how a primative eye can evolve google
    'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins on horizon. But then again I'm sure
    you won't because you only want to believe in God.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Closer and closer
    Andy you are getting closer and closer. You are most correct when you say
    "it didn't know". A theory cannot know. And description of an
    imaginary process cannot know. God on the other hand does know and He created.
    Closer to crossing my friend keep walking I'll get you there yet! You
    continually evave chance by saying it came to pass by natural selection..of
    what? The first chance occurence. But that is not true either! God created.
    You also say there is no purpose. That too is untrue. All things have a
    purpose. Every last one of them. Except you of course. You have no purpose
    whatsoever.
  • andy1968  - No purpose
    Absolutely right Glen I have no purpose whatsoever and I am still lost. I'm
    gonna see how my golden calf is getting on.



    Andy
  • Glen  - Not true
    Andy, not true my freind. According to evolution your purpose is to pass on
    your genes. By inference, you are placed here by nothing to have all the sex
    you can get to do one thing, make as many mini andy's as you can. Your purpose
    is the same as all the animals of the Earth. Here I thought you knew what
    evolution was about.
  • Antitheist1  - Slight alteration there...
    The drive is to successfully pass on one's genetics. Note the 'successful'
    part. We humans aren't all that good at mass-production of offspring like, say,
    plankton, who make so much that they can afford to just jettison huge quantities
    of gametes and leave it to fate to see which'll live.

    Which means that humans have to take on the strategy of producing QUALITY
    offspring, and taking care of them (science word of the day; NEOTANY!) to ensure
    that they reach an age where they can produce offspring of thier own. Having
    too many little Andys would result in an Andy too tired to raise any of them to
    maturity, thus negating the effort. And I thought you had some edjyumakashun
    too, G-man!
  • Damned by Glen1  - Andy...
    You available for bowling nights on Tuesdays?



    You rock! Keep it up!
  • Glen  - Skits O'Fool
    I will believe in you ROME when you can prove with undeniable historical facts
    the Rome actually existed. I simply replaced Rome for God and Jesus to show you
    how silly your statement is. The very same factoids will be used for both.
    Sorry Skitz you ain't got it.



    bye-bye.
  • john  - belief in evolution
    I will believe in evolution when some supposed scientists can actually prove.
    (and not by circular reasoning) that 1) Nothing created something and 2) Show me
    the cross evolution from chimp, ape, or rat or sea squirt fossil to man. Until
    then evolution is nothing more than the ranting of idiots that learned from
    other idiots.
  • unwaivering in the faith  - if you should read this Mr. Comfort....
    Despite the things that others may say I have an unwaivering faith in the work
    that you and Mr. Cameron do to further the Kingdom of God. If we ask our Lord
    boldly, and do not doubt He promises that He will do all this and more. I pray
    for you both now. Knowing that our God moved mountians and parted waters, we do
    not doubt that He is exceedingly able to change hearts and minds with your
    books. Be strong and courageous in the Lord dear brothers. You have the prayers
    of the family of God, and the power of the Holy Spirit behind you always.



    a daughter of The Most High God,

    Kerri
  • Dan Marvin  - Fresno State
    Well I went to Fresno State yesterday with my 40 books and they went in a couple
    of minutes.

    I stood in front of the library and handed them out with my daughter and found
    out later that night many students had a "Fresno State 'study' in library
    protest"

    The headlines said that "About 60 Fresno State students stayed in the Henry
    Madden Library as long as they could Friday in protest of the library's reduced
    hours due to recent budget cuts."

    It would of been nice to be handing the books out when all the news was there
    but I went earlier then the closing. They were on the news and hopefully they
    had their "Origin" books in hand to have some good reading that night.
    Thanks Ray for the good times, we had a blast and wish we had more books to hand
    out.

    I think we will order more, if possible, and do this weekly. We can always go
    and hand out tracts there. It is such a ho...
  • Rich Ramirez  - Please assist
    Hello,



    My 18 year old believes more on the side of evolution. I do not. Please send me
    a copy of your Origin of the Species so I can pass it on to him. Thank you and
    God bless.



    Rich Ramirez

    35 Palm Rd

    Ocala, FL 34472
  • E Hicks  - Your introduction idea is great. More please!
    I'm hopeful that your ministry will be consistent in its approach. There are a
    lot of dangerous scientific ideas out there which we need people to be
    misinformed about. Evolution isn't the only one!

    I'm assuming that Living Waters has plans to create its own anniversary
    additions to books that have been influential in helping understand how the
    world works.

    Let's see:

    I think in 2015 you should plan to take on the origins of plate tectonics by
    writing a series of falsehoods to introduce Alfred Wegener's "On the Origins
    of Continents and Oceans".

    You have almost three decades to prepare a special introduction to Newton's
    "Principia". The 350th Anniversary of the nasty spread of Gravitational
    Theory can be your target for 2037.

    You might as well get started on the introduction for your 2039 attack on Linus
    Pauling's "The Nature of the Chemical Bond".

  • Darryl  - Deceiving
    One of the hypocrisies that I see far too often in the Christian community is
    the "it's not a lie" excuse when attempting to deceive others. This
    book is an attempt to deceive, and that I resent. I believe this is what
    atheists are most enraged about, and Christians should be enraged as well.

    The whole reason a lie is wrong is because it's deceit. Making the book appear
    as though it's the original is deceitful.

    I'm sure the author will deny that there was an attempt to deceive, but it's
    quite obvious and undeniable, which makes any attempt a further deception.

    Ray Comfort is clearly a fast talking marketeer, not the type of Christian the
    community should support.

  • Big John  - Ray: Please fix the link to the pdf file to the in
    Ray:

    The link to the introduction (.pdf file) is no longer active. It was working
    fine yesterday!

    The introduction is the only part of the book worth reading and that's the part
    that needs to be shared with the world.

    Can you please send me a copy or reactivate the link? Again, it was working fine
    yesterday!

    Thank you.

    Big John
    Student
    Indiana University South Bend
  • Joseph Gordon  - Also
    A side point:

    If your brother . . . entices you secretly, saying,
  • Joseph Gordon  - Question
    Can someone please explain to me why Atheism is evil yet the people who are
    Atheists can be saved? I have read over a half dozen posts in which something
    is called evil. Why does it have to be evil? Why is it that in the face of
    whether or not god exists, by not knowing if he does automatically means that
    you are an evil person? Even more so, why must everyone be Brainwashed, is it
    not enough for them to just be wrong that you have to call them brainwashed?
    For all of the good EVERYONE HERE WANTS TO DO FOR ONE ANOTHER, WHETHER IT BE
    TRYING TO SHOW PEOPLE TO THE PATH TO HEAVEN OR SHOW SOMEONE THAT WHAT THEY
    BELIEVE MIGHT NOT BE ENTIRELY TRUE, ((If you didn't get it, I am referring to
    BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT)) The level of name calling, finger pointing and
    general lack of respect for ideas on the parts of some people is something I
    find very disappointing and ironic.
  • Glen  - Evil--short version
    My first question is, "Why did Jesus come to live among us?". Do you
    know the answer to this question? Jesus came to save humans by breaking the
    power of darkness. Darkness is another way of saying evil. Evil is another way
    of saying satan. Satan decieved humans away from God by rebellion, which is sin.
    The penalty imposed by the One that has a right to impose (God) is death.
    Athiests are no different than anybody else. All have sinned and fallen short
    of the glory of God; by sinning this way we are enemies of God (evil). By
    accepting Jesus' work on the cross AND in His bodily resurrection He breaths a
    new Spirit of life into us (born again). Even the athiest has access to this
    life if they just believe.
  • Antitheist1  - Oh...but...
    ...apparently not me. Glen says I'm irrevocably damned. Guess I'll just haunt
    his posts then! m(^o^y-~
  • Glen
    If you accept the gift of salvation from rebellion and then rebell again you
    have no justification. You have only judgemnet. You have stated that you came
    from messianic jews and was once a believer. Your statement not mine. You now
    state that you don't even regocnize God exists. This is rebellion after you
    have tasted God's salation. And yes. not for you by His justice and your
    rebellion. I have nothing to with it. I only point it out.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Another weird fact here...
    ...I notice that one of the laws of cults is to keep members in by punishing
    people who leave in horrible ways. Like Scientologists who cut people off from
    friends and family, and sue if they reveal the Dark Lord Xenu. Or Muslims who
    hold apostates in worse regard than infidels. Or credit card companies that
    screw your credit score if another credit card company checks you out.



    christianity meets every definition of the word 'cult.' It's just an old one.
  • Joseph Gordon
    The modern world does not do that, but it has done it in the past. It was
    called the Crusades. People do things in the name of God all the time, and in
    the name of Christ as well. Since no one knows 100% of everything in existence,
    can you truthfully tell me that in the past 20 years there has not been a single
    crime committed that wasn't in the name of Christ?
  • Anonymous  - Next book title: Nothing Upstairs
    That's a fitting title in more than one way. Come on guys, leave master Darwin's
    work alone. Give me a break from this hogwash introduction.
  • Brad P.  - Jay & DJ
    DJ: Jay never said that Radical Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity were
    "the same" as you replied. He commented that he saw "common
    traits" which is vastly different. However, like most Fundamentalists: you
    just spouted off without even fully reading what he said. Typical.

    Jay: Well said.
  • Hannah  - On campuss reaction :)
    Hey I'm a student at Emory University, in Atlanta GA, and I was so excited to
    see that Ray made the front page of the school newspaper. I think it is so
    interesting they are warning students not to read it...can't they trust their
    "free thinkers" to read it and discern the truth, without being dictated
    what they are supposed to think. I wish I would have been able to get a copy...I
    was on another side of capus though..and missed it :(
  • Joel  - Books at UCLA
    The book giveaway has become a joke at UCLA. Most of us students just rip out
    the 50 pages of nonsense written by Ray "banana" Comfort, and then give
    the book away to younger kids.

  • mike  - Ignorance, hate, and despicable tactics
    Was given this book today. I'm ashamed and embarrassed to be Christian today.
    Using Hitler to scare me from learning science? What kind of evil strategy is
    this? I have a co-worker who forbids his children from reading any science books
    or attending any science classes... Has Christianity gone insane?

    Are we so insecure and faithless that we are unwilling to accept science and
    absolute proven facts in fear that it will uncover some terrible truth or
    disprove our beliefs?

    Both Testaments are sacred to me. But I'm not so immature as to think that those
    who wrote them thousands of years ago weren't infallible or that they didn't
    struggle to comprehend what God was telling them or showing them or how to
    interpret the events and history that they witnessed.

    Big Bang Theory and God are not incompatible. Evolution and God are not
    incompatible. There is far more beyond what we know and understand in science,
  • Paul  - Evolutionists are not realists
    It's understandable why evolutionists hate the link to Hitler, but that link is
    a historical fact. Ken Ham has also co-authored a book on Darwin's link to
    racism called "Darwin's Plantation: Evolution's Racist Roots."

    Now, will they read the claims and evidence? Not at all! Because they simply
    can't believe that such a thing could be true. That's not honest scientific
    investigation. It's putting one's head in the sand, while attempting to sing
    louder than the facts that never seem to go away. Then they poke their heads
    out from the hole from time-to-time to mock those who live on the upside of
    reality. A very bizarre worldview, to be sure!
  • Eric  - Evolutionist upset since childhood
    Hello Mr & Mrs. Evolutionist. I know its painful and the truth can be. I know, I
    know. I was upset as a 6 year old child too because I really believed with all
    my heart Santa was coming to my house on Christmas eve. In fact I was angry to
    find out I was flat out lied too! The same scenario with the tooth fairy too! Oh
    and the Easter bunny. I knew something was wrong about the whole Easter bunny
    thing because the egg/bunny combination did'nt seem logical. I am now 36 years
    old and I would LOOK and be foolish to believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the
    egg laying rabbit. I know its painful, but please quit looking foolish by
    believing such a lie as evolution. I know this next statement might be puzzling
    but I'm going to say it. It does not really matter what you believe, it ONLY
    MATTERS WHAT IS TRUE and that YOU CONFORM YOUR LIFE TO THAT TRUTH. One day you
    will know truth. Either in this life or the next.
  • Jeff  - Good Point, Eric, except ...
    You made the wrong analogy. It's not Evolution that's analogous to these
    fictional characters. Evolution is TRUE, proven by concordance among Sciences
    such as Biology, Biochemistry, Geology, Archaeology, Astronomy, Cosmology,
    Genetics, etc., all telling the consistent story of Evolution. No, the correct
    analogous entity is GOD! Think about it: Long white beard (as "HE" is
    typically depicted), knows what you're doing, punishes you for doing bad,
    rewards you for doing good. How much closer to Santa Claus could you possibly
    get?! Oh yeah, and he's fictional.
  • Tom Repasky  - Can we really go back in time and pretend we don'
    From Wikipedia other references below
    In biology, evolution is change in the genetic material of a population of
    organisms from one generation to the next. Though changes produced in any one
    generation are normally small, differences accumulate with each generation and
    can, over time, cause substantial changes in the population, a process that can
    result in the emergence of new species.

    Seems that change (evolution) is the 'nature' of life. Without that 'change
    potential' most of life would have perished. THe ability to 'change' (evolve)
    and adapt to changes in the environment is not just nice, it is critical for
    life to develop and flourish. To presume that change does not occur and things
    remain as they were 'created' is to deny the ability of the human brain to learn
    how to process new information, to deny the ability of the human body to change
    and defend itself from parasites and bacteria (see Sickle Cell Anemia ...
  • FMCDOWELL  - Tom re; Wikipedia
    Tom Wikipedia is not a factual place for information. Especially since the edit
    line is right there for one and all to change

    If you believe in Creatism which you seem not to embrace, since you are
    defending Evolution, then you will not or can not accept that God created man
    and all of his gloriuos wondersin our bodies such as a brain to think. In Gensis
    God gives man charge over the earth and every living thing on the earth. Seems
    to me That is a pretty clear message to me that God gave the powers not
    evolution.Hence the brain to think, reason and develope cures.
  • chris Caldwell  - why
    I think you are extremely misled. If god is almighty and he created everything.
    then he created everything including evolution. Stop limiting the power of god.
    I am a christian and I believe in evolution. evolution itself is a measure of
    the power of god. It is the method. How else could we have the symbiotic
    relationship we do with all other species and life on earth.
    Stop this misled nonsense please. God is greater than this.
  • Jay  - Problems with the approach part 2
    others", a sense of persecution and victimhood, and striving for group
    purity through rigid dogma and intolerance.\r\n\r\nThis type of
    rigid thinking is exactly what Christ wanted to change when he spent time among
    gentiles, tax collectors and other untouchables.\r\n\r\nHow can
    Mr. Comfort possibly expect to convert a scientific and Atheist mind to Christ
    coming at them with such methods?
  • DJ  - Poor analogy Jay
    Jay, tell me the last time you heard of Christians beheading anyone? Or
    torturing them? Or being suicide bombers? If anyone does that, they cannot name
    the name of Christ. Radical Islam teaches you can go to Heaven by killing
    someone in the name of Jihad. Christianity says do not kill. The same?? I think
    not. By the way, where does Mr. Comfort show "hatred for others"?
  • Lynx  - DJ- Poor Attempt at Logic
    Christians beheading anyone: crusades, inquisition, French Revolution, modern
    examples aren't as publicized (the drug trade, a few sporadic examples in the
    US), but they are just as rare as in any other religion, beheading doesn't have
    a religion, and I feel ridiculous even discussing this, it bears no relevance as
    to what Comfort was saying in his introduction which was pure misinformation
    concerning Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. That is hatred. That is defamation.
    It's wrong.

  • Professor of History  - Get it Straight.
    As to Christians beheading people, then citing 1)Crusades,2)Inquisition,
    3)French Revolution,4)Drug trade[?]--the 1)Crusades occurred because MUSLIMS
    invaded Palestine, and thought it a good idea to a)kidnap and enslave pilgrims,
    b)plunder Christian holy sites. The Crusades were REACTIVE. (and, by the way,
    slavery was reintroduced into the West by Muslim trade).2)The Inquisition was
    false "christian" power brokers killing off their competition--true
    church members, GENUINE Christians. 3)The French Revolutionaries actually
    paraded a nude woman through the streets of Paris, proclaiming her "the
    Goddess of Reason." Their aim was to ABSOLUTELY destroy all religion, to
    create an atheist society based on "reason" and "logic."
    Definately NOT Christian. and 4)HOW could you call the DRUG TRADE CHRISTIAN?!?!!


    I am tired of these false old chestnuts being trotted out to defame Jesus and
    His Gos...
  • Antitheist1  - I LIKEY, Prof!
    You've done some homework! So, let's have a little sport of it, shall we?
    1.Crusades. Yeah...Richard the Lionheart spent all his time at war, away from
    his people, 'cause he cared so much about jesus? 2. Inquisitions. The argument
    that the 'bad' people aren't REAL (insert whatever religion here) is B.S. The
    inquisition killed anyone the catholics felt like killing, in the most horrible
    possible ways. 3. I agree. Reason and Logic are anathema to christianity, and
    any other religion. 4. Why, since jesus told Bush to go to war, has Afghanistan
    gone from almost none of the heroin in the world to over 90%? Lemme guess,
    those aren't REAL christians, right?

    Please understand, I love studying history, and I hold profs. in the highest
    respect.
  • Professor of History  - Antitheist1-I LIKELY...
    Crusades...The fact is that in opposing the Muslim armies, Richard de Coer was
    helping keep what they perceived as Christian control over sites held
    sacred-sites that Christians could visit unmolested under such administration.
    The Inquisition was all about POWER. The reformation broke their power for
    millions by spreading literacy, allowing European civilization to truly
    progress. The Goddess of Reason was created to replace one god with another.
    The current replacement is EVOLUTION. --which is unreasoning. The drug trade you
    refer to here was to finance the Taliban and Al Quaida. Your last comment is
    appreciated.
  • Antitheist1  - Hehe...I can see...
    ...that I have my work cut out for me! Crusades; yup. No argument here.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Inquisition; You mean christian CONTROL.
    Yup. Exactly my point. Reformation; enabled by the invention of the printing
    press, which was first used to publish the KJV of the bible. Who was King
    James, and why did he so desperately want HIS version of the bible out there?
    Drug trade; under the rule of the Taliban, there was NO heroin crop in
    Afghanistan. Al Quaida did not exist before they were created by the US. The
    drug trade I speak of is worth almost exactly the same amount in the US as the
    legal pharmaceutical industry. I hope I got all that in before the cut off,
    Prof.
  • Jay  - Response to DJ
    DJ, thank you for your comment. Allow me to expand on the suitability of my
    comparison of fundamentalist doctrines. To restate, we have these aspects
    commmon to both:



    1. Persecution complex and sense of victimhood. Self evident on this website
    "They desperately want to stop us"???, and any viewing of a 700 club
    show will document an us against them mentality. I find these behaviors quite
    narcissistic, as if Atheists while away their hours thinking of anything but
    their own affairs.



    One google search on Islam brought up a quite depressing link: The Jewish War
    Against Global Islam. I also cite the recent "blasphemy laws" being
    sought in Muslim countries as more evidence of group victimhood and paranoia



    2. Membership by hatred for others. Can you honetly deny the daily outpouring
    of enmity for homosexuals and "liberals"? Would Christ be proud of such
    engagement?

    ...
  • Ken  - "Christian" murders
    DJ,
    What do you think was the religion of almost all of the citizens of Nazi
    Germany? You know, the nation that slaughtered so many Jews. I realize that the
    Nazi regime did pull back from having an official religion, but what about the
    German people? And, if the Pope is Catholic, and if Catholics are Christians,
    where was the resistance to these Nazi atrocities from the Vatican?
    Don't say "they weren't real Christians" -- my catechism came from
    Heidelberg. Martin Luther himself from Eisleben (Germany.) Nazi Germany was a
    nation of Christians. Uncomfortable, no doubt, but true. Also, the fire bombing
    of Tokyo (~100,000 deaths of civilians) and the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and
    Nagasaki (~180,000 deaths) were carried out by our Christian nation.
    To think Christian history is without violence is ignorant. Besides, I assume
    you "don't suffer a witch to live" or do you think that was just good
    advice for...
  • Professor of History  - Ken-"Christian" murders
    I think you ought to read what the Nazes themselves wrote. Hitler admired
    Darwin and Nietsche, and was, as were the other bigs, very strong in his belief
    in Aryan Reincarnation. Remember that business about the Nazi expedition to the
    Himalayas? That really happened to "prove" ancient Dravidian culture
    had really morphed and migrated to primeaval Germania. That is why Joseph and
    Magda Goebbels willingly killed ALL of their children within reach, and why they
    embraced death so willingly. The whole NAZI debacle was Darwinian with a
    capital "D."

    Tokyo. Whatta want, we drop flowers on 'em? We're talking Tojo there. Yep.
    Darwin fan too...
  • Antitheist1  - Hey!
    Half my family's Japanese. You ever been to Hiroshima? Go there, and have a
    look at photos of babies with thier eyes melted out of thier heads. The reread
    that commandment of yours...you know the one that says something about killing?
    There's no provisos there.



    Oh, but jeebus changed the law? Didn't he say something about the other cheek?
    Don't sell war and claim to follow the bible.
  • Antitheist1  - Oh yeah...
    ...and since you are a history prof., I thought you would have been informed on
    how the Japanese were trying to surrender to the Americans for three months
    prior to Hiroshima. The Americans refused to let them because the Japanese
    emperor was considered a decendant of izanagi and izanami, or the Japanese gods.
    They ruled that the emperor had to be declared a human, because jesus was
    supposed to be the only god, and the Japanese couldn't understand why thier
    2000-year-old imperical dynasty had to end. Religion was the reason those bombs
    were dropped.
  • Professor of History  - Antitheist1-Hey!
    Not selling war at all. I feel the Navy should have been used to blocade Japan,
    as we could have done so. Old boy friendships between Truman, Henry Stimson,
    and the other higher-ups nixed that. Truman was no Christian, but a hard-core
    Freemason. I Know that a Naval Intelligence agent named Zacharius(?) wrote just
    after the war how the Japanese were making enquiries regarding surrender, but
    mistakenly approached the Russians, who WANTED the war extended enough to allow
    the slaughter that followed. There was intense military pressure to 1)prepare an
    invasion, with horrific casualties, and 2) to use this new freaky device--the
    A-Bomb. Just ONE WEEK would have sufficed to work something out.
  • Professor of History  - Antitheist1-Oh yeah...
    In case you were wondering about the brutal nature of the war, I could refer you
    to the Rape of Nanking, and all sorts of things that were widely reported in the
    press about the "Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere." The Japanese
    armies were not nice folks, and the fear they engendered was deep and
    lasting.Bushido did not allow for "civilized war," whatever that may be.
    But this was a case of casting down a power that threatened millions of
    innocents. By the way, Nagasaki was THE Christian population center in Japan.
    Stimson chose it as a target. I would have chosen --Blockade, until Tojo cried
    "uncle." I would say "decency" was the reason Tenno had to go.

    By the way-I saw in your posts that you play banjo. That is one thing I wish I
    knew.
  • Antitheist1  - YESYESYES!
    I lived in Japan for years, and I've been trying to teach what you just posted
    to the Japanese students I taught for...well, kids these days just don't
    appreciate history!

    On the blockade, that was what got the US into WW2 in the first place! Use half
    the navy (the good half) to blockade Japan from it's food and oil supply, China
    and Korea (Don't worry, I'm no Nanjing denier. I do, however, also know that
    they treated thier soldiers about as badly as they treated enemies) resulting in
    Pearl Harbour being attacked to force the blockade to go home, which was the
    plan in the first place (egg on the Japanese to attack to raise political will
    for a war).

    Also, as seen in Iraq; The people hurt by sanctions are never the ones we're
    trying to hurt.
  • Antitheist1  - And the Banjo thing;
    Banjos are easy! They get tuned to an open G, so you can 1-finger barre-chord
    just about anything in a major key, and minors are almost as easy. The real
    work is in the right hand.



    Tell you what; get your hands on a banjo, and I'd be glad to send you some
    e-lessons (video files with tablature) for free. Just keep going with the
    history! I just finished the history of ancient Rome via audiobook (starting
    with the Romulus legend, ending around the formation of the Holy Roman Empire,
    which was none of those three words...). I enjoyed it so much that I listened
    to the whole 50 lectures in just three days. Maybe I need a second wife, if I
    have that much spare time, eh?
  • Stephen  - Christian Violence?
    Ahem, I don't know if DJ is indicative of all Christians with his head in the
    sand but have you folks heard of Inquisition? Or how about the Salem witch
    tortures and burnings? The Holy Wars perhaps? History is littered with carnage
    committed in the name of the Lord. All religions are the same; they are myths
    based on unprovable suppositions that are created and perpetuated by people for
    their own personal gain.
  • Glen  - personal gain?
    What gain do I get from hearing nonbelievers call me names? What persoanal
    benefit do I get out of violent actions perpetuated on me because I say nothing
    more than I beleive? Christ is not an unproveable supposition! I did not creat
    Him! Nor did any other beleiver for that mater. Furthermore, Christ is not a
    myth! Now for your "religion" argument...works do nothing to impress
    God; They are seen as an attempted bribe. God does not accept bribes. He is
    Righteous. All these lists of atricities are humans that know not the Father.
    So you reject God as a result of sinful men?! Come on! Where did that thinking
    cap go!
  • Antitheist1  - Yeah, where?
    Hey, G-man! You still didn't answer me on this one, and I kinda think it's
    important; who created the evil? I reject YOUR notion of said god based on the
    absence of evidence, topped with the evil part of the world!
  • Glen
    Of course you reject it. It is your only option! Evil is rebellion against
    God. Satan did this. it is his actions Jesus crushed when he died on the cross
    and was raised from death to life. Since you claimed to have been a Messianic
    Jew you already know this. But since you have rejected His gift of
    Righteousness you cannot come back.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Question....
    ...if there were no god, then you would be evil? I mean, if there were no
    eternal punishment, how low do you think you'd sink? Are you good for rewards,
    or punishment? How would you act without the almighty police eye in the sky?
  • Glen  - causality
    Anti-theist, you are confusing primary and secondary causality.
  • Antitheist1  - Of course!
    They are indeed old arguments, but I've never heard a satisfactory explination.
    Please, educate me!
  • Jay  - Problems with the approach
    I heard about the book give away on CNN, and was drawn to the website to find a
    point by point attack on Darwin's scientific method, with supporting evidence.



    Mr. Comfort made a remote (and,perhaps unknown to him) allusion to Thomas
    Aquinas' Summa Theoligia, which contains the beautiful, rational, and logical
    Cosmological Arguments for the existence of God.



    Instead of drawing on this existing 800 year old resource, he attacks Darwin in
    an Ad Homemin style, which is most distasteful.



    I perceive that many Atheists do not accept God out of lack of scientific
    evidence(Albert Einstein, et al.), not from some spite driven embrace of immoral
    practices or view points.



    As a Christian, I am deeply turned off and disgusted by the all encompassing
    paranoia and hatefulness found in Fundamentalist Christianity. Like Radical
    Islamists, I see these common traits: membership bound in hatred of "the
    ...
  • Don Jennings  - Couldn't agree more
    The so-called forward is just another ad hominem attack on Darwin himself, which
    just goes to show you how desperate ray whatitsname is to kill evolution. For
    one thing, evolution does not even address the issue of the origins of life, it
    ONLY talks about the way changes come about, so you can be free to be totally
    Christian and still believe in evolution.
    The pope gave a nod to Darwin, so why can't the radical right do the same? What
    is there about Darwin that frightens them so? Does this mr. Ray think if we
    don't rid the world of the evils of evolution that Christianity is doomed or
    some such rot? Hey Ray, do you even know what Ad Hominem IS? Google it, you can
    find out just HOW effective it is as an argumentative tool.
  • Barbara Elbertson  - The Pope???????
    Your mention of the pope as a way to give Darwinism validity is expected since
    the pope kneels down and worships idols (virgin Mary) whom we are to revere but
    NEVER pray to or kneel too. Who also pretends to be God by having members
    confess their sins to him or his priests insted of Almighty God, sins are ONLY
    forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ.
  • james  - here is a quote from the legendary atheist Aldous
    who would disagree with you about the reason he and other athiests deny the
    existence of God:



    "I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; consequently, I
    assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying
    reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world
    is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics (whether or not
    God could exist); he is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason
    why he personally should not do as he wants to do, or why his friends should not
    seize political power and govern in the way that they find most advantageous to
    themselves...For myself, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an
    instrument of liberation, sexual and political."



    the thing about naturalistic science and faith in God is that they both operate
    on preconceptions, as all systems of thought do. one come...
  • Anonymous
    wow...just wow... this is amazing that people can use this information on this
    site and claim that it is evidence FOR God. I mean come on... no physicist is
    saying that there was NOTHING before the big bang...and his concept of a dog
    trying to find a female is laughable... this guy isn't using common sense!
    Simple because some people don't believe in the christian god doesn't mean they
    aren't moral! You think Gandhi is a bad person!?!?! I would rather be down in
    hell (which I don't believe in) with Gandhi than in heaven with any of the
    murderous crusaders or witch burners that claim to be Christians.
  • Bob  - Please spare us your foolish clap-trap!
    A thoughtful person should have no difficulty reconciling evolution and a belief
    in the Creator.

    God's hand and his plan for creation can be clearly seen in the beauty and
    elegance of evolution.

    Use the brain that he gave you for something other than blindly following the
    ignorant and ultimately self-defeating path of absolute creationism

    Bob
  • DJ  - God did not use evolution
    Sorry guys. God and evolution do not mix. Maybe your made-up god does, but the
    God of the Bible created the world in seven days. And according to Genesis, sin
    and death did not enter the world until Eve and the forbidden fruit. In an
    evolutionary timetable, billions of years would have had to pass without death,
    until humans (Adam) evolved, therefore making evolution and the God of the Bible
    irreconcilable. If you don't believe Genesis, fine. But don't think evolution
    can work with the Biblical account of the beginning.
  • Dylan  - Metaphor
    Hello DJ,

    I wonder if you ever thought of Genesis being a metaphor. Or to what
    credibility the text owes. If you think of the creation as a metaphor, a rather
    beautiful and elegant one at that, especially considering the time period in
    which it was written, then it is easy to reconcile it with evolution. I am not
    saying it was wrong. I am simply arguing that a book written (in several
    versions) by the tribes of Israel during their occupation by the Babylonians,
    bearing similar themes as creation myths all over the world, may have a limited
    credibility in being accepted as absolute fact. It is very difficult to have an
    intelligent conversation about such a topic if the only argument on your side
    is, "It's in the bible, and thus it must be true, as God wrote it." Men
    wrote the bible. Men are fallible. Doesn't that make it more worthwhile
    though?
  • Peter  - Such anger
    As a Christian, it saddens me to see so much seething anger expressed in these
    comments, and none more vituperative than some from those who claim to be from
    the side that above all should be flowing with love and compassion.

    The mistake made by most strict creationists is that they tend to create God in
    their own image. They limit God as to what tools of creation he can and cannot
    use; to what timeline they will allow God to follow. They put God in a very
    small box that looks a lot like them.

    My God is too big for me to define or to limit. Remember that Darwin was
    himself a seminary graduate. He did not deny the existence of God or the
    possibility of intelligent design. Some of his writings and letters include
    Hosannas in praise of creation and God's miracle of evolution that brought it to
    be what it was.
  • james  - why a "Christian" if your God is too big for you
    all God has to be in order for limits to be needed is existence. the same goes
    for any truth for that matter.



    the truth excludes all other takes on reality as true by its very nature.



    see the above comment about how evolution cannot be if God's word is true b/c
    the Bible says that all death is the result of the curse laid on the world
    through sin; evolution demands that before man existed, an uncountable number of
    things lived and died as they evolved upward.
  • Carter
    I understand that your idea of intelligent design is from the idea that a
    superior intelligence could have been responsible for the diversity of life on
    this planet and the existence of humanity.

    That is possible. It may, however, have nothing to do with the bible. We must
    all search for the truth in our own way. Don't force your subjective beliefs
    down the throats of others, declaring that you are right and they are wrong.
    Myopic stalemates reek of failure for all.
  • Carter  - What's next
    What's next, are you going add a disclaimer to the Theory of Relativity, and
    fight for a geocentric model of our solar system to be taught as an alternative
    to heliocentric?
  • brady johnson  - lost
    how can get a copy of Origin of Species?
  • Dave  - google "project gutenburg" it's free
    There are lots of good books there. Keep reading.
  • A&M Undergrad  - Laughable at Best
    Your neighbors here in College Station agree. I picked up a copy after reading
    online about the planned book release. His arguments are laughable at best and
    pale in comparison with the scientific rigor that Darwin's theory has endured.
    Mostly his addition personally attacks Darwin's character. Typical of the circa
    1800s ignorance he so graciously included and cited! My only objection to the
    book is its deceitful nature. Comfort could have easily handed out copies of
    his own book, as his introduction is just a series of quick summaries of his
    past work. However, he hid them in a great work of scientific discovery.
    Evolution Theory has come a long way since Darwin. It would have been nice to
    see him argue against one of the newer comprehensive works out there. A good
    look through his citations at the end of the introduction shows that very few
    works on evolution were cited; the ones that were cited were obviously limite...
  • coastalaggie  - FYI
    I do not understand Christians who pick and choose what science they want to
    agree with. News Flash!!!, the same scientific method and process that is used
    to gather the million pieces of data that support evolution is used in vaccine
    development, cancer research, etc. If you do not support evolution then you
    should not support vaccines! In fact you should loath them and picket every flu
    vaccine clinic because guess what. The scientific method based on evolutionary
    processes were used to create that vaccine. In fact, you should be picketing
    every scientific endeavor. But no. You turn your back on science when it
    supports evolution but flock to it when you want medicine. Wake up folks and
    stop turning your brain off. You can support evolution and still be a great
    Christian. If anything, evolution shows just how tremendous God can be.



    Spiritual scientist
  • john oconnor  - Spreading the Message
    Religion is just a fear of mortality.
  • John Warren  - No Fear of Mortality
    I agree with you that religion is a fear of mortality.
    Thus, I humbly thank God for His Son and the Truth of the Gospel which takes
    that fear away.

    O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?...1 Corinthians
    15:55
  • denise
    thank God someone is brave enough to go on to campuses where anything goes and
    confront evil . with the truth of the gospel
  • Tyler  - I got a book!
    So I was blindsided by someone giving out free Origin of Species on campus. I
    already read it once but can
  • Tim Weakley
    Great job Ray, I am shocked that the amount of people offended by a FREE
    book,this book cost the reader nothing. Why are these people so upset about
    something that they say they don't believe in? Could it be that they have doubts
    about there own beliefs. When talking to most of the atheist all I hear is where
    is your proof and here are fifty pages of FACT (and where the information can be
    found) but you still call FACT fiction.





    All of the atheist are welcome to put your own money up to put out any book that
    you would like to give away. Please let us know when and where you will be doing
    this I would like to pick up a copy.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Ahhh...freedom!
    I teach guitar, and banjo, as well as several martial arts. What would you like
    to learn? You won't have to pick up a copy, I'll send it to you!



    But I warn you; I don't believe in god!
  • Damned by Glen1  - WHAT?
    It would appear that Tim won't take free knowledge! Try this; if you go to
    Richard Dawkins website, he has HOURS of video lectures available for free
    (including a 5 hour lecture held at Cambridge). He's not exactly hiding his
    info!
  • eisoj  - ...
    ok tim, how bout the god delusion by richard dawkins....?
  • John C.  - As long as Darwin's text hasn't been tampered wi
    .... this stunt might actually boost interest in the so-called "new
    atheism." I agree with Comfort that intelligent students are likely to see
    the absurdity of creationist claims when they're juxtaposed with Darwin's
    masterful and inspiring explanation of natural evolution. Don't destroy these
    books, and don't ignore the religious introduction! Read the whole tome, then
    read "The Greatest Show on Earth," Richard Dawkins's new exposition of
    the massive evidence for evolution that has accumulated since Darwin's time.
  • Mike Chesser  - Upset Christian
    Um, I'm Christian and I find offense in tactic of attacking Charles Darwin, a
    noted abolitionist and a brilliant man.

    It is good to see the interest which this book has stimulated, but I fail to see
    how making a connection between Hitler and Darwin furthers things in God's
    Kingdom!?! He was motivated by his desire to show man as having coming from the
    same Person i.e. black, white, everyone in between...

    I will confess that I have not read the Origin of Species, but it's on my todo
    list, just as soon as I finish the OT & NT. Then I'll be able to take an
    objective view of this 'critical' book.

    ... and by the way, I did vote for President Obama!

    "For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."

  • David A. Smith
    Excellant reply, I Couldn't agree with you

    more. Christian / Agnostic
  • Glen  - oxymoron
    one cannot claim to be a Christian and claim to be agnostic. Claiming such
    makes you a liar.
  • Anonymous  - Well Sone on the free giveaway
    Awesome Job!!!
  • Peter Shier  - "Angry Atheists"
    Your main page cites backlash from "angry atheists". I do not agree
    with your position overall and I think subverting Darwin
  • Nelson  - Proverbs 14:25
    "A deceitful witness speaketh lies" Proverbs 14:25. If Mr. Comfort's
    arguments had any validity he wouldn't try to sneak them in through this trojan
    horse of a publication. "He who begins by loving Christianity better than
    truth, will proceed by loving his own sect or church better than Christianity,
    and end in loving himself better than all." - Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I
    suspect Ray Comfort is quite in love with himself.

  • UT undergrad  - Please Christians, chill
    Hello to all. I am a student at the University of Texas at Austin and the other
    day I was blindsided by someone offering me a free Origin of Species. When I
    arrived home, however, I noticed some guy named Ray Comfort wrote a "special
    introduction." "Awesome!" I thought, "Who is this Ray? A
    geologist? A biologist?" No. A Christian preacher (or something like that?).
    Since then, I have been researching everything I can on your group here.

    The most common argument from your side regarding this book seems to be:
    "Let's put both sides out there and if our views are ignorant, then surely
    college students will recognize this and throw our views out." Well guess
    what? The verdict is in and we're casting your arguments aside. I have yet to
    mention this free book giveaway around campus without hearing laughter. WE DON'T
    WANT TO READ YOUR WASTE OF TIME THEOLOGY.

    Please! We are future scient...
  • Dave  - Instead of ridiculing...ask yourself this
    What do you think the Christians' motive is in handing out this book?
  • UT undergrad  - Apparently the message was cut off
    I was saying that we here are future scientists and politicians. We are not
    fooled by your obvious lack of scientific understanding. If you truly believe
    there are NO transitional fossils or that that the mapping of the human genome
    does not aid the theory of evolution then your motives are clear: You are either
    willfully ignorant because you desire peace rather than truth or you actually
    believe you might save us (pun intended) from these heathen professors.

    However you want to spin that, go ahead. But again, please confine your lack of
    reasoning to Sunday school. We're trying to study real events here, not dissect
    magical fairy tales. Thank you.
  • Professor of History  - UT undergrad
    The scarey part is ...and politicians. I don't think I want to have
    Evolutionary thought processes deciding what will become of my in my
    "golden" years.



    Soylent Green, anyone?



    Oh, right, all those retired "old people," the World War II veterans and
    that ilk, I guess that now that they're "old and useless," we should
    utilize our "biological imperative" under "cost-benefit analysis
    principles"...



    and sentence them in front of the "death panel," duly appointed by our
    fellow Gen-Xers and Gen-Yers. Strange, isn't it, that the very sorts who
    denigrated the Vietnam Veterans will be able to see them ground into meat mush
    and bone meal for the common good?
  • Glen  - LOL
    Soylent Green Ha, HA, Ha. Humor! I love it!

    Professor that was a most enjoyable post!
  • Antitheist1  - For once...
    ...we absolutely agree on something! I do hope that science figures out a way
    to prevent the crotchety-cracker-spread, 'cause there's NO WAY I'mma be caught
    dead eatin' grampas tuckas!



    I'm not the prayin' type, but I think we can all agree to pray that that never
    happens!
  • UT undergrad  - By the way
    I consider the direction these follow-up comments have veered as a complete
    success in my part.

    Does anyone see a fault in that reasoning?
  • Pastor Kolade Akin  - well done
    You guys are doing a great job. Keep it up and don't allow any intimidation to
    stop you. The lost will be saved.
  • Chris  - No intimidation intended
    Pastor, no intimidation is intended by most people who are critical of what
    Comfort has done here.

    Many Christians and non-Christians both have opinions on the matter, and are not
    trying to threaten with violence or the like.

    Is it a sin for someone to actually use their brain to work things out and come
    to their own conclusions about reality and religion?

    I pray for you. I pray that you see the light someday.

    The lost will be saved.

  • Antitheist1  - As one of the most virulent guys here...
    ...I feel the need to say that I intend no intimidation either. Though I do
    keep being threatened with eternal torture, my purpose here is entirely
    peaceful, if not in accord with the idea behind the site.



    While there is a lot of debate going on, and I thoroughly dissagree with
    religion as a whole, I do have to say that I have not yet been censored here,
    which shows at least a willingness to consider other points of view.
  • Glen
    It cannot be a treat to you as you don't beleive it is viable to begin with so
    really stop decrying something you don't even recognize...unless you know it is
    true.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Woe unto G-man, you heretic!
    As, 'tis easier for a rich man to enter the eye of a needle, and as you should
    sell all you have, and follow: Sell your home, car, computer, and whatever else
    of value you have. Seeing as 80% of the world's population lives on less than a
    buck a day, just how many people could you feed? HOW MANY, RICH MAN?



    How many kids starve so you can power your computer, you hypocrite?



    Verily, I was lost, and you did not find me. I was hungry, and you did not feed
    me. I was cold, and you offered me no blanket. I was lonely, and you did not
    comfort me.



    By your logic, a lost soul is the least of your brothers, and therefore, how you
    have treated your lord.
  • Glen  - Really?
    Is this the best you can do? Oh, you're a hypocrite. Look man you have been
    called out. And you have not said even one thing to debunk or refute your own
    choice to be damned by your own actions. The truth has been unleashed on you
    and all you can do is squirm in your seat. Please, just stop! Your anger and
    hate is seething. I would love to able to help you. It is not possible because
    of the reasons already stated. Haunting me will not rectify your choice! You
    are sealed by your choice.
  • Damned by Glen1  - I keep telling you...
    There is no god. Why would I be afraid of being damned? There's only one end,
    we die, and our bodies get recycled.



    And yes, I am angry! I watch people get killed every day by this stupid, false
    thing called religion. I've seen families destroyed, cities levelled, lives
    ruined. Religion has nothing to offer humanity, and much to atone for.



    I'm not squirming, I'm just getting started.
  • Holly  - Aplogetics
    Good for getting the Gospel out there. I'm glad that there are people in every
    sphere of influence getting the message out, but be careful about too much
    debate. Paul spent most of his time presenting the gospel, not defending it.





    It is "convenient" that we cannot duplicate the beginning of the
    universe... then maybe we would know what happened. But I know, in my life, that
    God has changed me. I have been and am being changed more and more into the
    likeness of of the character of Christ. I see the change in myself. This cannot
    be refuted. My life is proof. The love I have for people is proof. And seeing
    myself 5 years and 10 years ago compared to now is proof.



    Let's not argue about the Gospel. PRESENT it and move on. If people don't want
    to change their mind, they are not going to. It's called free will. Shake the
    dust off of your feet, pray for them, and move on to share with open minds. Or
  • Joseph Gordon  - Deception
    Today I got my copy of this book at my campus. I was not alone in being pleased
    by getting the book, and I was also not alone in being offended when stumbling
    across the introduction of the book, and later on the warning notice posted on
    the back of the title page. The way in which this book was distributed was
    deceptive. Although your name was on the front cover, not everyone knows who
    you are, myself included. This made the distribution deceptive to me, as I was
    not expecting to be reading what I found. I have taken the liberty of watching
    almost every single video posted on this website, from the "Evolution"
    video in which you believe that you have shot down the theory, and even the one
    about Atheism. I have watched several promotional videos about this, and have
    done some research, I even took your "do you think you are a good
    person" quiz, which I am proud to say I have failed on every commandment.
  • Joseph Gordon  - Deception Part 2
    Being a good person is different than following the ten commandments, and it
    should be addressed. I am not saying that if you follow the commandments you
    aren't a good person, but I am saying that just because you don't follow the
    commandments it means you cant be a good person. You should really specify that
    there is a difference between a good person and someone who is a good person in
    the name of God. I am not saying you are wrong in believing in God, however I
    am saying it is immoral to distribute information under the mask of an opposing
    viewpoint. If you really do believe in God, you shouldn't be hiding in the mask
    of Atheism.

    Also, not all atheists think they know everything, and you shouldn't assume you
    are correct either. Just because you feel you have proof of God, that is just
    1% of all of the knowledge in existence. How do you know that in the remaining
    99% there aren't other Gods, or that maybe God is ta...
  • K. Allen
    considering that atheists surround our public schooled children with their
    beliefs on a daily basis. If not by directly stating them then by omission of
    any biblical teachings. I think this book is a great way to put forward the
    views opposing Darwins THEORIES. Theory in its definition is not fact so those
    who want only proven facts must also throw out evolution. there are lots more
    facts supporting creationism than evolution. Just take a moment and think if
    the fittest always survived then why are there; after thousands of years; still
    weak species and dominant ones. This book is presented under the assumption
    that everyone knows what Darwin's theories are but not everyone has been exposed
    to the bible's explanation of creation. Therefor the text presenting the
    Christian views is bigger than Darwin's text. Also, considering the amount of
    evidence supporting the bible as a true document and the lack of evidence
    prov...
  • Joseph Gordon  - I think your post got cut off
    Even though I know someone is going to harp on me for saying this, even though I
    will explicitly say this is going to be my OWN beliefs, I do not see any truth
    in the bible. I also understand what a theory is, and how would you react that
    if instead of schools teaching about evolution, they taught based on the
    teachings of the Koran, or introduced Hinduism's version of the way we were
    created into schools? The omission of biblical teachings is not specific to
    just the bible, it applies to all religions and their theories about how humans
    came to be. If you want to be fair about it, you would need to present all
    teachings from all religions.
  • Joseph Gordon  - Also
    If you believe that creationism is correct, then that is fine. But by believing
    creationism is correct, it says that all other thought processes in the manner
    are wrong in your mind, and that they are only theories. It is the THEORY of
    creationism, and the THEORY of evolution. The key word is the one you
    defined,"Theory in its definition is not fact so those who want only proven
    facts must also throw out evolution." By that statement, since it is the
    THEORY of creationism, we must also, but your account of throwing out all non
    proven facts, therefore throw out all unproven facts that have not been
    evaluated in similar manners and managed to render concrete answers, which means
    the THEORY of creationism must also be thrown out.
  • John S.  - You show a lack of understanding in the scientific
    1. The scientific definition of theory is very different from the average
    definition of theory. Scientists must approach everything with skepticism.
    Nothing is science is absolutely proven. However, some things have a greater
    body of evidence supporting them. For example, gravity has a great body of
    evidence which supports it. However, there is a possibility that the results of
    some experiment will disagree with gravity. However, given the large body of
    evidence, we find this to be extremely unlikely. In science, an idea must have
    a large body of evidence to become a theory. I believe that you are using the
    term theory like scientists use the term hypothesis, which requires little to no
    evidence.

    Science approaches everything with a skeptical eye. If it can be proven to some
    degree through experiment, it lies in science's domain. This is neither
    atheistic nor theistic. Science does not have a place in theis...
  • Nick  - Yes....?
    ...Archaeology is a science. What's your point?
    Yeah those fact things, we tend to like those when stating our opinions as to
    avoid sounding ignorant.
  • Glen  - My point
    Is you are completely ingnorant of what the ten comandments are for and why
    Jesus came. Archeaology is a science used to discover achient artifacts and
    cultural remains. Isreali antiquities authority regularly uncovers cities,
    synagogues and other tidy little tidbits supporting what is written in the
    bible. Again those pesky little factoids. I would rather sound ignorant to you
    though. And I take it as a complement. Thank you!
  • Joseph Gordon  - Stories
    I don't think he is ignorant of what the ten commandments are for and why Jesus
    came, I think he just doesn't believe in it. Maybe you are right, and the bible
    is all truth, but there are a lot of stories that are written about things that
    happen which are not true, but are based on places ((Like cities)) and other
    tiny little tidbits that do exist, but are used in a fictional story, in a
    fictional world that is based off of the real one surrounding whoever is writing
    it.
  • Nick  - I'll ignore grammar here for your sake
    From what I gathered from that, you are trying to say that because we uncover
    cities through archaeology, therefore the bible must be true. What about the
    fact that there hasn't been a reliable piece of evidence uncovered that discuses
    Jesus or his followers that doesn't appear till almost a hundred years after his
    death? All it proves is that these people did indeed live along time ago.
  • Glen  - Rome
    Use you logic on Rome and its empire. Same truths yet all beleive Rome was.
    Same evidence aplies. Sorry fellas but you got nuthin'. Your arguments are
    empty. The very best you can do is call it a fictional story when it is not.
    Telling you does no good either so what then? What can I do? nothing. You are
    doomed. All I can do is witness to the fact that Only Jesus can call you out of
    it. Given your level of hatred toward Him good luck with that! Hope He has
    mercy on you. It is the best thing for you.
  • Nick  - I don't hate Jesus
    I hate people who are narrow minded and ignorant.
  • Amber  - Thanks Ray!
    I just wanted to say thanks to Ray for providing us with 1,000 books to hand
    out..we prayed about how we would get the books and God came through like
    always..keep doing what you do!
  • Dan  - "Like always"???
    Amber, are you saying that everything you pray for is always delivered? If it is
    not than your saying that ..."God came through like always..." is pretty
    much not true.
  • FMCDOWELL  - To Dan Like Always
    Dan,

    What Amber means is, when you pray for something God will answer your pray if
    what you pray for is his will . So don't pray to win the Lottery, it is not
    God's will!! Just an example
  • Tina  - My sentiments exactly
    You hit this on the nose, what is every one so offended about, are those getting
    this book so afraid that the truth will hit them square between the eyes, and it
    will set them free. What happens to being open minded? I guess that only comes
    into play unless it is your own belief system!
  • Nick  - Cornell
    As a Cornell student, I can't wait to find these people today and get my copy.
    I'm sure if nothing else it will be an interesting discussion
  • Allen MacNeill  - Comforting Creationists Wimped Out at Cornell
    Sorry, Nick, but apparently no creationists showed up at Cornell to pass out
    their abridged copy of the Origin of Species with Ray Comfort's mendacious
    introduction. By the way, Ray is lying when he says the entire Origin is
    available in his bastardized version. On the contrary, he's apparently cut out
    those chapters that have proven most inconvenient for creationists in the past.
    And, he's added a fifty-page "introduction" that's filled with laughably
    inaccurate so-called "arguments" against the content of Darwin's
    masterpiece.

    So, why did Ray's minions wimp out at Cornell? Maybe because Cornell is
    well-known for being the Ivy League university most dedicated to the principles
    of modern science, including evolutionary biology. Or maybe because Ray's
    followers were discomfited by our ever-present November rainfall...
  • Nick  - Yeah I figured that was what happened
    Darn shame that, I was all geared up to discus some of the points made in their
    introduction. I knew they would be afraid to come to Cornell, they can't be that
    stupid. We would rip them a new one.
  • JayBird632  - Whats the problem
    I'm wondering what all the commotion is about? If the information in the
    introduction really is as stupid, simple hogwash as you all claim, then no one
    will believe it....right?

    Let these books go out there and Let People Decide For Themselves...!

  • Allen  - Please, quit quoting the Bible
    Please, when discussing scientific theories (i.e. "facts" for the
    layperson), don't quote the Bible. It is NOT a scientific document, and there
    was no scientific method validating it's claims. Furthermore, the Bible ALSO
    says:

    (I Timothy 2:11)
  • Glen  - Quoting the bible
    NO! Your authority is not valid and I will quote it when needed. And so what
    about the First Tim cherry picking? Dig deal! As far as sceintific methods
    validating its claims...is archeaology a scientific field? Facts, Facts. Gotta
    have facts. Sounds like a song.
  • Nic  - Missed his point completely
    I think his point was that quoting the bible in a scientific discussion is about
    as effective as trying to persuade an atheist that God exists by reading Genesis
    to them.

    If someone doesn't believe god exists, why should they believe anything in the
    bible is true?

    If archaeology supports the bible, then why don't you reference any finds or
    studies that have proven events referenced in the bible?
  • Glen  - Okay if you insist...
    1) Archy find el numero uneeeo. How about the historical Babylon? In IraQ???
    heh?? No?

    2) Okay, my bad that one don't count. How about the Temple mount!

    3) Too devisive. Got it! Let us try something like a synagogue in capernaum.
    This is the headquaters city of Jesus' first year of teching. He visited it.

    4) Oh yea too direct. Hmmm. what else. Maybe the washing pools of bethsaida?
    Heh? there ya go. that'l shut 'em up!

    really? You're not buying? Oh well. Wall theory.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Not bad!
    Some actual, debatable evidence! You are capable of it! Now, here's the
    problem; King Kong took place in New York, and ended on the Empire State
    Building, both factual places. Does this prove that the story is true?
  • Professor of History  - Glen-Quoting the Bible
    I have a degree in Near Eastern Culture and Archaeology. Archaeology is
    DEFINATELY science, and, I am pleased to note, one of the strongest supporters
    of the Bible epic. Many times old arguments were overthrown by evidence that
    confirmed the places, people, and customs described therein. It's really a
    fascinating field--far more interesting than widely dispersed, dry monkey bones.


    Piltdown Man. Outright FRAUD.

    Peking Man. Conveniently missing.

    Java man. Built from ONE TOOTH. Later found to be from a pig.

    And Lucy? Please!!!
  • Damned by Glen1  - Admittedly!
    And that's the whole point! When science has found a mistake, they ADMIT it!
    They go back to work, find the flaw, and fix it! They disgard that which is
    wrong, and use what works and can be demontrated again and again! christians,
    on the other hand, kill people who ask questions. This has been demonstrated,
    again and again. And even without fossils (which science does have) the case
    for evolution truly is water-tight.
  • Professor of History  - Damned by Glen1-Admittedly!...
    If someone tries to use Jesus to kill people, then he DOESN'T GET THE POINT.
    Those were "nominal" Christians, the "tares among the wheat," if
    you like. My problem is that I STILL find CURRENT publications that reference
    ALL the fossil frauds, including embryonic evolutionary recapitulation.

    How did we get the woodpecker?

    How did DNA evolve?

    How did the basic amino acids combine by accident--CONTRARY to the Laws (NOT
    Theory) of Themodynamics?

    How on earth did the duckbill platypus come to be?

    Feathers? Eyeballs? The Human Reproductive System? (at once both INCREDIBLY
    complex, and--humorous)

    SCIENCE, yes, corrects mistakes. Evolution is Faith in letters of stone 20 feet
    tall.
  • Antitheist1  - I'll get to this one tomorrow...
    I've got to get some sleep before work, and this answer is going to take some
    time. Except one of them;



    "Ever wonder if god smokes dope? Look at a platypus. I think so!"

    -Robin Williams
  • averageheight  - Well...
    Piltdown Man. Outright FRAUD.

    Yeah, glad we don't have that on the family tree anymore.


    Peking Man. Conveniently missing.

    But we made replicas before it went missing.


    Java man. Built from ONE TOOTH. Later found to be from a pig.

    Actually it was a skullcap, not a tooth, and it was proved to be from a hominid.


    And Lucy? Please!!!

    You mean one of the most complete hominid fossils to date?? Please!!!
  • mike  - Copy of the book


    I am a student in Chicago and would like a copy of this book if possible. Please
    e-mail me at mikezapata (at) hotmail.com if you are able to send one. Of course,
    I would pay for shipping/handling. Thanks
  • Kara  - Fantastic Idea, Unwise Implementation
    This idea was fantastic. However, doing an abridged version was most unwise,
    and has made Christians appear dumber. Now people are saying that the parts
    that were cut out are the parts that could be used against Christians.
  • Doyle  - This is a failure
    So I'm in school right now, learning about anthropology. I was walking from
    class to the library today, and someone handed me a book. I looked at it, and
    saw that it was Darwin, and I thought, "Oh wow, free book." I was
    wanting to have a copy of it anyway, since it would be good for me to read it
    for my schooling. I started looking through it, and found that the introduction
    at the beginning was extremely biased towards Christianity. Interesting, I
    thought. The views and facts as they present them were interesting enough, and
    I'm not labeling those as fallacies, but come on. What a disrespectful thing to
    do. using someone else's work to get people to read your own... And really, how
    many times does that "special note" by Ray need to be in there? Another
    disrespectful atrocity they committed with this book was they made the print of
    the text of their portion of it regular sized, but the print of the text...
  • T.M.  - Want to witness to your faith? Feed people.
    This is such a catastrophic waste of resources.



    If this much money and effort were put into feeding and clothing people, you'd
    have done something for the Kingdom.
  • Damned by Glen1  - YES!!!!
    The antitheist whole-heartedly agrees! In fact, I offer to help! Sell your
    wealth, and I'll make it my business to distribute it to those who are in real
    need. I'm serious here, so take me up on it! C'mon christians.



    'And he went away greatly troubled, for he had much.'



    I don't expect to hear LW selling it wealth to feed people, but I have said I'd
    help, so I'll be checking back here.
  • Antitheist1  - One down...
    It would appear that Glen, at least, has turned down my offer of helping with
    the feeding of people in need, saying, "I'd rather ask for Osama Bin Laden's
    help..."

    C'mon, people! I'm not some kind of wierd demon-thingy! I'm ONLY AN ATHEIST!
    If you want to do good things in the world that we all live in, I would suggest
    that you learn to live with Atheists. We outnumber you! And such disdain from
    the religious of society is starting to force us to organize...
  • U of U Student  - waste of paper
    most students who received this book at my university today were extremely upset
    with being misled and being handed a "trojan horse". so, they just
    threw it away. I understand wanting to get your views out... but isn't there a
    better way to go about it? maybe a way that people aren't tricked into thinking
    it's something it's not?

  • A  - To be quite fair...
    Personally NOBODY should put much stock into debates period. As most debates are
    simply intellectual gladiator fightings that BOTH sides render the other side to
    be FOOLISH! and IRRATIONAL! Not even documentaries! (although one I've seen to
    be okay) You personally should STOP being lazy watching documentaries with
    slighted information and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! Exploring IN DEPTH BOTH SIDES of
    the argument. Come to your OWN CONCLUSION! Quit being scared of information
    that might change your life! Although i suggest come to your conclusion or re
    examine your conclusion in taking your time in doing so. If you are not willing
    to do this or havent done this YOUR NOT SINCERE in what you believe. YOU HAVE
    COPED OUT! DONT be a COP OUT! Take a step out of your comfort zone and read some
    opposing viewpoints giving them the benefit of the doubt. You just might find
    that trusting the Bible isn't so unreasonable.
  • Glen  - Trust..
    "...Trusting the bible (God) isn't so unreasonable." Wrong Sister!
    Trusting God is the only way! Wordy docs to get to the point of the falsehood
    does not negate the falsehood.
  • Roy  - Wut
    I do believe that what was meant that you can trust the Bible while
    simultaneously believe in evolution. And interesting standpoint would be such as
    though that God had created everything, and had intended for mankind to be in
    his image, he decided to allow us to explore scientific knowledge in that
    evolution was created for us to study. We would be able to trace back our
    evolution into the current state we are in, which was God's intention, to what
    we used to be. This, in turn, would give us the freedom to study all things that
    God had created in order to be closer to him. It isn't truly that far-fetched to
    believe in evolution while simultaneously believing in a God, but my lack of
    faith stems from other things that have nothing to do with evolution.
  • Glen  - Deluded
    Roy, God did not intend for to be in His image. We were created In His Image.
    There is no coming into His image nor is there a progressive move by site
    mutaion in our DNA's away from what You think He Intended. Your thinking is
    crooked. I have to say I don't know if this teaching about beleiving in both is
    a salvation issue, but I have a feeling it have to do with calling God a liar.
    If He says I created everything just the way it is and we (humans) say no
    everything has been changing into something else for millions of years it makes
    God out to be a liar. And that is wrong! Soory to hear about your lack of
    Faith. I'll say a quick prayer for you.
  • Antitheist1  - But...but...BUT...
    ...if god commands no killing, then commits genocide, why should we think that
    when he commands telling the truth, he'll follow that rule?
  • A  - Wrong brother!
    If you cant trust the Bible to be accurate in what it says what makes YOU think
    it can teach you anything about God reliably? You have to trust that the
    scripture is reliable before you come to faith in God. Rom 10:17 So then faith
    cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. You need to read your Bible
    brother!
  • Glen  - ?
    I think I may have misread what was being said in this line. A.-- you stated
    that trusting the bible is reasonable! I agree! Sorry 'bout that! I somehow
    read past the double negative. in the sentence. My bad!
  • Dan  - On the contrary.
    Trusting the bible is exactly unreasonable. To trust something with no proof in
    favor, and much proof against, is the absolute definition of unreasonable.
  • Professor of History  - Dan-on the contrary
    So where's your proof? Darwin himself stated that he went into the field he did
    because he wanted something genteel to do, that blood (he started to study to be
    a doctor) sickened him, and his father's patrimony would not be enough to
    support him in his accustomed manner. He was a dilettante, a sloppy scientist,
    and it shows. There is a world of proof against Darwin, even his base concepts,
    but NOTHING thrown against the Bible has stuck.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Apparently...
    ...that's because bible enthusiasts can't count. There are two creation stories
    in Genesis. There are 15 'twelve apostles' listed through the gospels. The ten
    commandment were given in three versions, and the first had only 8. And the
    bible says god committed genocide, while saying that killing was a sin (oh,
    right, that's what god and god alone is allowed to do, right?), and also ordered
    others to do so directly, and in his name. Reason won't stick because the
    chistian argument is won on volume. And failing that, murder.
  • DJ  - Sorry, no deception.
    It's not deception. Once Living Waters (recently) decided to go out on different
    days other than just the 19th, they stopped saying the 19th. With thousands (no
    exaggeration) of news outlets already stating just the 19th (of which there are
    dozens of Universities still scheduled to receive books), there would be no way
    to tell them all, "oh by the way, it's not just the 19th anymore . . ."
    so they didn't do it. And unless you believe in a worldview of absolute
    morality, you have claim against the ministry anyway.
  • Jolyon Johnson  - As a Christian
    Most of what I would say has likely been said. Thus, I would just like to say
    that as a Christian I am sad to see such immoral misrepresentation of a
    scientific document. The introduction is in huge font and has big pictures and
    subheadings while the original text is in tiny font and chapters do not even
    start on a new page. Christians are supposed to be leaders in ethics.
  • DJ  - Joylon
    I can think of two reasons right off the top of my head. First, atheists would
    be outraged if there was no distinction between the intro and the actual text.
    Also, Darwin could have provided pictures in his original but chose not to (or
    could not). Also, I can only imagine the costs of producing this many copies of
    the book and I'm sure the font size was needed to bring the page count down.
    From my experience, the more pages of book, the higher the cost.
  • Concern Case Western Student  - Unfair Argument
    I admit I am quite surprised at how clever this ploy was. Putting a biased
    introduction before the Origin of Species was really clever. However what was
    not clever was critiquing an out of date scientific argument in an attempt to
    make the current version of the theory look stupid. It will work on the feeble
    minded but those who actually look at things objectively will not be duped.

    Secondly, the flow of all of these books onto the Case Campus has put unneeded
    strain on our recycling services. Several recycling bins are full, almost
    entirely filled with copies of this book. Please don't waste so much paper and
    make the lives of our custodial staff more difficult than it already is.

  • Joseph Gordon  - Really?
    I mean I saw a lot of them filling up, but I didn't see any overflowing today.
    They were really a hazard handing them out on Euclid, saw someone almost get hit
    by a car because of it.
  • Glen  - out of date??
    Now you're talking! Evolution is nost certainly out of date! Good observation
    Kid! As for feelble minded...no so fast you little wipper snapper! I'll have
    you know...Hee hee I am just so overwhelmed by the mightly intellect that must
    denegrate the oposing party just so they are now equal. This indicates to me
    that the oposing party is above the one performing the belittling. Good to be
    on top! Thanx for the teastimony Sister or bother...whatever!
  • Roy  - Wut
    Quite honestly, this would have been a good idea with a different book. There
    are many idiots on both sides of every argument, sure, that much is known to be
    true by everyone. There is, however, a variable not taken into consideration
    when writing the intro to this. It is that there would be massive hate directed
    to the author of the introduction. Sure, I may be atheist, but I do not line up
    with the idiots who go with the book burning or anything of the like. Yeah, I
    don't like it, but so what? If you're truly atheist, just live with it. Life is
    too short to hate anything or anyone, anyways.
  • Jess Boling  - Handing out Books Before Announced Date at UCI
    I'm a student at UCI and I have to comment that it is particularly cowardly for
    whichever group that was going to pass these books out at UCI to announce one
    date and then pass them out on another.

    Going to the booth the people handing them out did in no way mention the
    religious content of the introduction, and UCI students were told to, quote,
    "use it in your science class".

    Luckily there were people there to clear up any confusion and explain to people
    that Ray Comfort knows less about the domestic history of the Banana than he
    does about biology. Thankfully the ordained priest and world renowned biologist
    Francisco Ayala is a part of the faculty at UCI and may clear up any confusions
    about evolution Ray will create:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_J._Ayala

    Please take all the credit for handing out these books Ray, it only strengthens
    the perception that you know absolutely nothing ...
  • DJ  - Regarding date change
    The date was set for November 19th and then ramping up toward it, it was
    determined that the 18th was a better day. If your sources did not update you to
    the change, then you need to find better sources. Irregardless, the date was not
    the reason for the giveaway but the book itself so it's a moot point unless
    someone was planning a censorship disruption such as a book burning or tearing
    out the introduction which was encouraged by Richard Dawkins.
  • Debbie  - No information was forthcoming regarding date chan
    Since Ray Comfort's ministry was responsible for setting the date, and many
    groups have made numerous attempts to be aware of the date, let's just call it
    what it is: deception!

    The idea that we should or could find "better sources" than Ray Comfort
    or Living Waters is trying to hide from the truth.

    The idea of being present at the book give-away was to offer an alternative
    point of view. Similar to what Intelligent Design fans are requesting in our
    public schools. If it's good enough for I.D., then isn't it good enough for
    everyone else?
  • Lynn Wilhelm  - Irregardless...NOT
    Fix your grammar, please. Irregardless is not a word (it is, however, a great
    restaurant in Raleigh, NC). The word should be regardless. If you are so
    concerned about education you should use correct grammar.
  • Derek Smith  - congratulations
    I don't know why you would think that people who study the sciences would fall
    for your trickery when you released a book trying to counter the findings that
    go against your ideology. I'm sure that if Darwin was alive today he would have
    not allowed for you to release such crap. Your introduction is ridiculous,
    Darwin wrote "The Origin of Species" to express his findings, not to
    spread his ideas...there is a difference. Luckily for me I can rip your intro
    out and still have an unaltered (hopefully) version of Darwin's work. Thanks
    for the free book.
  • Student  - After Reading Your Introduction
    I got your book for free today on my campus. I was excited b/c I thought that
    someone was finally standing up to the religious wackos that show up all the
    time. Apparently I was wrong. I was reading the introduction and I was stunned
    by all of the simplification and exaggeration used to try and make a point. It
    was really ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone who is well informed
    about the standing of the theory of evolution in the scientific community could
    be convinced of anything by it. It is well known that evolution is widely
    accepted by scientists and the highly educated. Quoting a few people with doubts
    about small parts of the theory does not make the theory false, and it does not
    make its broad acceptance false either. Those who believe in the theory do so
    because of the strong evidence that they can personally investigate, not because
    they are just being told to believe it by others. Therefore, you should have ...
  • mnevins987  - Highly Educated?
    The Bible says; Ye that does not beleive in God is a fool.
  • doesn't matter  - The Bible says:
    The Bible also says that something very interesting in Deuteronomy 22: 13-22.

    Care to pick up the first stone?

    The reason Christians think quote mining is perfectly fine is because they
  • Jonathan  - I think the title of this article should be change
    Origin of Species Campaign Enrages humanity.
  • Glen  - Man's decline
    Dan, all you have done is speak about mans ability to improve technology. Humans
    are exactly the same or as this line is suggesting worse than anytime before.
    You have said something about slavery...check it out. There is more sex slavery
    right now than any other type of slavery. These girls are horribly treated.
    Equality is also not a good issue due to the Arab countries restricting women in
    horrible ways. They will even beat them for being raped! In Africa women are
    nothing. Now let us look at the civil massacres and genocidal sweeps in Africa.
    Oh yes you limited your observations to the First-world orders. Let us not look
    at the truth.
  • Antitheist1  - Such as...
    ...how the Mormons preach that women can't get into heaven, except as sex-slaves
    for the men? Or how US soldiers go nuts and kill themselves and thier families?
    Or how about all those 'bombs of love' you guys keep firin' at Iraq?



    Let's by all means look at those first-worlders.
  • Glen
    So far your conviction of man's wickedness is right on traget. I don't give the
    orders for our soldiers. If I did I'd pull all of them home.
  • Austin  - Fun
    Because the people reading this are either illogical or (I really liked this
    word) pedantic, I would like to share an excerpt from Shakespeare:

    Out, out, brief candle!
    Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more: it is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    And here, in this simple space, is reason.
  • Glen  - Me thinks someone just learned a new word!
    Austin, hey guy. Pedantic just makes me laugh out loud. Especially those
    holding to the idea that there is no God. After all I was charged with being
    pedantic further down in the posts. As far as illogical is concerned. Whatever
    buddy. Name calling is the best you can do?



    g
  • Antitheist1  - Just wondering...
    ...the same about YOU! How much torture have you added to my already eternal
    burden? Insisting on your truth with no evidence the best YOU can do?



    Planks and motes, G-man, Planks and motes.
  • Glen
    I add nothing to your burden. That is all you, buddy. I have only taken what
    is hidden and spoke it out loud for all to hear and see if they will.
  • Kevin F.  - Atheists Enraged?
    As an atheist and scientist I'm not enraged at all. If anything, maybe a little
    sad. Religion will die because it ignores fact and reality. The lies of Comfort
    etc become clear eventually (like earth in center of universe) and expose
    religion for the fraud it is.

    I'm getting a copy of the book on my campus tomorrow. We call it the
    "collectors' edition". Comfort's amendment is wonderful example of
    distortion of science and outright lies. I am glad that it is being
    distributed, not enraged.

    I came to this website to find out where I can get my free copy on campus.
  • Bryan  - Penn State
    I understand there are going to be copies handed out at Penn State Main Campus.
    Unforutnately for me I do not go to main campus, but one of the sattelite
    campus's instead. I have a friend who can pick me up a copy but she would like
    to know where exactly on Main Campus it is going to be distributed at
  • j  - Where Do Morals Come from???
    continued....

    Today morality without God is used as the trump card against religion. I believe
    Dawkins, Hitchens , and others to be moral men. They are probably better than
    most Christians. My non believing friends are more moral than some of my
    Christian friends(and they are not considered by anyone to be "bad"
    christians. Although their case is made, their point is not! To me anyway. The
    Bible is clear that gentiles (non jews) having NOT the law (law of Moses) do by
    NATURE the things that are contained in the law. Romans 2:14-15 LOOK IT UP! The
    point is its a natural thing for gentiles like dawkins and hitchens and others
    to do the law because God has written it in thier hearts. But you say not
    everybody is good as the laws to be. Thats where sin trumps us. We are weak
    towards sin. So much so that no one cannot not sin.
  • j  - Where do morals come from???
    The question of where we get our morals from is a good question to ask.
    Depending on who you talk to you will get a different answer, Christians will
    say the ten commandments almost parrotlike. Non-Christians will say society,
    family, etc. Not the Bible (although some might say). I say its a good question
    because it raises a valid point to me anyway. The ten commandments weren't given
    until Moses came around. There is evidence of law predating Moses by Hammurabi.
    Think about it Christians. Adam, Noah, Joesph, Abraham did not have the ten
    commandments! The Bible doesnt give evidence that they did. To assume some sort
    of ten commandments given would be to jump outside the text of the Bible.
  • FMCDOWELL  - Morals
    Adam and Eve sinned against God. It may not have been written down,as a law
    however, they were told by God not to eat the forbidden fruit and they did
    therefore breaking God's law (verbal Law)Example: your Mother or Father tell you
    you cannot do something, as a child this is like a law even though it is not
    written down for you to see as a law.

    Morals come from God plain and simple. God wants everyone to live under his will
    or (law) God never lies and therefore his will is just and moral. Society lies
    to bend the truth to be whatever a person wants to justify his own actions.
  • Rich
    LAB-
    If there was a god, anyone believing in him because of pascal's wager would
    surely go to hell. Believing in god because it's better than nothing sort of
    defeats the point of faith and belief.

    Oh, and the question of religion is a legitimate concern as well, assuming that
    god gives credit for lip service.
  • Glen  - What?
    I would like it if you were a little more vague. Then no one would even know
    what it is your are trying to say. As it is any simplton could grasp this.

    So, what do you say is the point of Faith and Belief?

    and What question concerning religion are you refering too?
  • Rich  - I sincerely doubt
    that any form of evidence or proof would convince 'Glen' here of anything and
    earlier he (or she, albeit less likely) that the bible is not 100% true.

    Therefore, why is there the urge to tear down this theory?

    Science should be covered by the realm of science. That involves generating
    hypotheses and testing them to find out if they are true. That is not possible
    with religion. Religion cannot generate anything that we can test. Evolution
    is a theory in that it is supported by current evidence even though we are not
    strictly able to test it at this time. Theoretically, at some point in time we
    might be able to replicate conditions or perhaps even abiogenesis, the creation
    of life from non-living materials. Strictly speaking though, all that is
    required to disprove evolution is ONE fossil.

    Creationists should not act hurt and surprised when their beliefs are ignored
    and tossed aside by the scientific c...
  • Glen  - 100%
    I think an error was made in the first sentence. But I want to state
    unequivically that I not only beleive but know the accounts in the Bible are
    100% real and true. There is no fasle hood in God. Rich, your statements about
    me being convinced of anything are fallacious and a personal attack. I want to
    thank you for it. It simply demonstraates that I don't belong in this world;
    that I have already been set apart. Thanx again for your witness. As for
    interpratation of data I can hold my own thank you very much. The one that
    cannot be convinced is you! Bye-bye.
  • Tray
    Wow Glen: "But I want to state
    unequivically that I not only beleive but know the accounts in the Bible are
    100% real and true. There is no fasle hood in God."
    There's another quote I like: "Ignorance more often begets confidence than
    does knowledge."
    Oh, that quote is from Charles Darwin by the way.
  • Glen  - So?!?!?
    Tray, glad you like the quotes. So What?

  • Antitheist1  - My thoughts exactly...
    'Remove the plank from thine own eye first..." Don't quote scripture to me
    if you can't read a quote from Darwin.
  • Glen
    I will do as I please! You don't have to stick around. It is cool for you to
    just mosie on back to wherever you came from. Besides what have I said that is
    so judgemental in the phrase, "So what?"?
  • Damned by Glen1  - This is what!
    The quote offered was very valid! And for the record, you don't have to stick
    around either!

    I'm still waiting for you to do the christ-like thing and sell all you own to
    devote your life to helping others! Let's do some math, shall we? Computer;
    $1000. Rent/mortage; $1500/m. Car/gas; $1000/mo. University Education;
    $40,000. Average wage for 80% of the world's population; less than $2/day or
    $700/year. So how much good could you REALLY do? How much good would be done
    if your religion sold all its property? WWJD?
  • Damned by Glen1  - So...
    ...the world is 6000years old, and was created in less than a week? Are you for
    real? The Jomon culture of Japan was producing polished stone tools (that's NOT
    knapped, for you archeologists out there) over 12000 years ago. We have
    realistic human sculptures dating back 19000 years. We have animal carvings and
    wall paintings dating back 30000 years. god must really want to fool us good
    with all them dinosaur bones! And putting countable, ANNUAL rings in trees that
    can be matched to OTHER trees for an unbroken record of over 11000 years? Sheer
    genius! Give us humans solid, easy-to-follow PROOF that the earth is older than
    the bible says it is, just to throw us off track! This god guy is diabolical!
  • Anne  - Got book, read intro, good stuff!!
    Got my book and it is at my father-in-law's house:). What God does with that is
    His will:).I am excited about it though and know He's working in his heart:). I
    read the intro to the book and I think it was well written and there are no
    personal attacks of any kind. (I would be surprised if there were coming from
    Ray:)). In Darwin's own words, he doubted evolution seriously when considering
    the complexity of the human eye. He also noted that african americans were
    closer to the gorilla, which sounds like racist classification to me. I mean,
    how does one come to that conclusion without being racist? Putting races in
    classes as Darwin seems to have done, is just wrong. That is saying one race is
    superior to the other and I have to say..that's just nonsense. I never believed
    evolution, even when I didn't believe in God. It just seemed silly and my
    instincts(my God- given conscience) were telling me that something was just
    reall...
  • Arjun C  - hi
    is there a list of universities where the book will be handed out?
    "top 100" is subjective
  • SB  - Challenge: How about distributing a modern evolut
    Kudo's for distributing the Origin of Species, ableit with religious propaganda
    preceeding it. However it is a 150 year old book that only set the stage for
    extensive research on biogeography, development, and genetics that have followed
    since. The Origin is written in a style that is probably not approachable by
    many, and cannot accurately reflect the current state of our understanding. I
    challenge Living Waters to distribute a modern text such as "Why evolution
    is true" by Jerry Coyne, and to come up with arguments against each of the
    points in that book. Sadly, this challenge is not likely to be taken.
  • see Michael Langan  - SB: your challenge has been answered already?
    by C. Michael Langan and others in a book of essays and papers callend
    "Uncommon Dissent".



    It is a few years old now and so not up to the minute, but if you are really
    interested in the explanatory deficiencies of evolutional theories, it is a good
    place to start.

    I wonder also if y'all who oppose this are not getting upset defending claims
    that neither Darwin nor modern research make? What does evolutionary science
    have to say about how and why life began in the first instance, or why it just
    happened to have some encoding allowing it to adapt to its surroundings?

    whatever happened to the gentleness and tolerance of hte humanist spirit? oh
    yeah, every page of human history bespeaks our evil. i forgot. LOL. Dawkins for
    Chairman of the next French Revolution implementation Committee.
  • Ryan  - Books given away at my university
    Hello all,
    Someone came to our University yesterday hauling boxes full of the books. The
    lady distributing ignored us when we asked what organization she was affiliated
    with and she quickly left when we asked if she had a permit. She was not
    outside, but going through our buildings and handing out the books. After
    reading the fifty page introduction, I found much of it to be opinion presented
    as fact. The hasty generalizations about other world religions really saddened
    me. I am a christian and I love God. I wish people didn't tarnish the already
    negative view creationism already has by spilling their slander and opinion all
    over our college campuses with books like these. If you are going to present an
    argument for creationism, an introduction for a book is a bad place to do it.

    The book distribution at our campus overall was very poorly received. Most
    students felt like they were being scammed because the free Origi...
  • EJV  - Never seen a Christian?
    For all of you out there who've never seen a Christian--



    Two things--



    You obviously do not know what a Christian is, and you support the Biblical
    teaching that "all have sinned." Christians sin, are saved by grace and
    are going through a process of transformation that takes a lifetime. Do not
    judge the veracity of the Christian message by basing your views on fallible
    man. Honestly give yourself to Jesus and you will find Him to be faithful and
    will show you the love that you so long for.



  • DaveH  - You haven't read it, Ray.
    That's what annoys me. You haven't read the book you're writing an intro for. Or
    if you have read it, you certainly haven't understood it. Not even the basics.

    How else could you ask people, in one of your latest videos, whether the
    creature that humans evolved into was a man or a woman?

    Not much better is the question whether the creatures that moved from sea to
    land had gills or lungs. Have you heard of amphibians?

  • James  - God will reward you guys.
    Man I love Ray and Kirk! God loves Ray and Kirk! They stick their neck out
    constantly to expose the sins of the world, and, just like Jesus said, they are
    being persecuted for Him. It says in the Bible, if you act like Jesus, they'll
    treat you like they treated Him. However, the reward in Heaven for suffering for
    Christ is neverending. I know these scientific personalities enjoy talking
    about how smart they are and how they use their "reason". The Bible
    says the exalted will be brought low and the lowly will be exalted. Pride is a
    poison in God's eyes. However, the devil runs the earth and the majority of the
    people follow him.
  • Pete  - hey Glen
    I have one word for you "HORUS" please google it and read how he was
    around thousands of years before Jesus and somehow its the same story just diff
    names

    both born to a virgan, both had fathers and mothers of the same name, died and
    was rezed 3 days later. ect ect

    there are i belive 2 other gods with the same stories.

    truth is the people who wrote the bible didnt even know jesus,never met him and
    was wrote 40 to 100 years after he died.
  • Glen  - Pete
    Poor, poor Pete. Always learning but never knowing. You are not of Jesus'
    flock so you'll never accknowledge the truth because you don't hear His voice.
    I will not google your idol. I have zero desire to be decieved by the evil one.
    I have come out of that bondage and I am not going back. I will ask for the
    Father to draw you but it entirely up to Him. He is Soverign and He knows
    everything about you; even if you are to be His child. So should I ask for you
    He may say, "I am sorry, Glen. Pete is of no account.". He may also
    say, "This thing you have asked me I will do because you (glen) are an
    intimate friend and have found favor with Me.". In either case I turn my
    face to Him in hopes that I get to hear Him say, "...you are an intimate
    friend and you have found favor with Me.".
  • Torrie  - Glen
    wow, i feel so sorry for humans who will never know the true beauty of the earth
    and the purpose for being here. back in the 70s, they used to send people to
    psychologists to get deprogrammed from being brainwashed in a cult. all
    religious people need this badly. that guy who wrote about the god Horus is
    correct, and there were many more like jesus/god, prior. but i think the real
    conversion/deprogramming will take place over time and it will come from
    atheists getting the bible scripture out there. as the saying goes: the
    quickest way to turn someone atheist is have them read the bible. i am reading
    it now and wish i'd have done so years ago, i could have became an atheist that
    much faster and saved myself all the pain of believing in a skydaddy that isn't
    there and feeling guilty about being an animal that lives and dies. rare is a
    christian who has read the bible, and i don't mean just the new testament.
    while th...
  • Torrie  - Remainder of truncated post
    while there are plenty of disgusting things in the new testament (which was
    written over 30 yrs after jesus' death, btw) the old testament is absolutely
    atrocious. some christians go to church and have some idiot preacher cherry
    pick all the nice passages so they can all pretend the bible is a nice book.
    facts are facts. read it for yourself and see. humans are so weird, they hate
    the fact they are going to die, so they make up things or believe things that
    someone else made up. then, they panic and tell everyone about their made up
    stuff as if it is real and dire and they chastise others, ridicule them, try to
    guilt them into thinking they are bad people and need saving from an invisible
    sky god that there is no scientific evidence for. wow! i feel sorry for humans
    who never get to do much more with their brains than occasionally take them out
    to play with them. sad.
  • Glen  - Wow
    Torrie do you feel better? I am very glad you got all that hate out of
    yourself. Now how much of the crazy stuff in the OT is caused by the humans and
    how much by God? God appears occasionally to trusted people to set them
    straight. To witness against the people. Torrie, Scietists cherry pick stuff
    all the time so that is an ineffective tact. There ias abundant scientific
    evidence for the existance of God just becuase you refuse to see it is the
    underlying problem for you. And I feel sorry for humans that only use thier
    brains to believe what they are told to believe so long as it does not contain
    the word GOD. Okay so name calling over got anything important to say.
  • Torrie  - Glen
    Wrong, Atheists don't have any hate, that is what the religious people have a
    monopoly on. I feel sorry for you because you were indoctrinated and can't seem
    to come out of it. I feel sorry for all humans who don't use their brain and
    settle for folklore tales. There is zero scientific proof for God, absolutely
    none.
  • Professor of History  - Torrie-hate?
    I find one thing interesting. I do not hate or fear--Santa Claus. The Easter
    Bunny. Leprechans. The Tooth Fairy. A balanced Federal Budget[?]



    All these things are, in my cosmography, non-existent. I feel no anger or fear
    regarding them. Yet atheists are VERY angry with God for--not existing.



    I mean,if it really ISN'T, why does it matter to you? Why seek to stamp out
    those of good will who DO believe? Stalin, Pol Pot, Ceaucescu, Tito and Franco
    were all people of that sort.



    Hitler and his crew, by the way, were Aryan Reincarnationists...



    The usual Atheist/Aganostic [or, Agnostic=Greek for the Latin=Ignoramus]
    attitude seems to belie their base claim- that there IS no God to respect or
    fear --or judge.
  • Antitheist1  - Gnostic...
    From the Greek meaning, 'one who knows.'

    I have no anger towards god, I've said that before! The fact is that you are
    also an Atheist, Prof. There are literally THOUSANDS of gods you don't believe
    in, and for the same reason I don't believe in them either! I just go one god
    further.



    My anger is directed at the harmful effects of religion. If an atheist were to
    cut pieces off a baby, there'd be jail time! But if a religious person does it,
    well, they call it 'circumcision' and throw a party! An Atheist can't be a
    'conscientious objector' because we CLEARLY can't understand that killing people
    is wrong right? But claim to be a Quaker, and you're out of the war!

    I'm angry at RELIGION! Not the Ishtar bunny!
  • Glen  - Alway with the PROOF?
    Alway proof of God. Where oh, where is the proof? It is all around you and you
    are incapable of seeing it. You and your very words are proof but you will not
    accept it. No! There must be another reason! It cannot be that God made me!
    Every last tid bit of stuff science studies is the box God created! All of it.
    Including those stuying it. You Torrie. You are evidence! You give glory to
    God evey day of your life.
  • Glen  - let us test your hate shall we?
    Since tolerance is the way of Humanism then all things must be tolerated sooner
    or later. So Rapists should be considered good! Will you show me now? No? Child
    molesters must be good!

    Now? Where is your line sister! Athiests don't hate? I feel sorry for
    athiests who don't use their brain and settle for fokelore tales.

    Now Torrie what evidence do you Require!!?????
  • Antitheist1  - OH, we hate...
    ...but we hate the religion, not the parishoners.



    And according to your philosophy, all will be forgiven, right? We shall forgive
    our brother '77x77 times!' So, I'd like to invite you to start the forgiving!
    Which Catholic priest would you like to do a public press conference with?
    Which mass-murderer shall you forgive? Would you forgive me if I farted in your
    car with the windows closed ('cause there's no way I'd forgive you on that
    one!)?



    Now, what EVIDENCE do you have, Glen?
  • Glen
    My evidence is you! These cinarios you have presented are no different than
    disobedience to you parents to God. Trivial right? After all they are only
    paretns? It'll end you up in the same place because of rebellion against God is
    what put us here. You disp[lay that quit well. Thank you! Jesus told the
    Paricee's of His day, that is the "religious elite", that prostitutes
    and tax collectors ARE getting into His kingdom ahead of them. Justified
    through Faith in Jesus Righteousness is His gift to us. But not to those that
    have had it and chosen to reject it.
  • Damned by Glen1  - So why...
    ...do you keep saying it? I'm not going to be falling on my knees and begging
    forgiveness. See, when an athiest makes a mistake, there are no miracles that
    can fix it (just as it is with the religious), and so we don't waste time hoping
    someone else will do what we need to do ourselves.



    As for the humanist code, there IS tolerance (something which may be a foreign
    concept to the godly!) for anything that does not do useless harm. While not a
    homosexual myself, the practise of it by other people harms me in no way that I
    can show, and thus cannot be opposed. I'll oppose it when I see it actually
    hurting people. Religion, on the other hand...
  • Robbie Lester  - Apologetics-An Intelligent Defense of Faith
    It is amazing how I have seen so many posts on this Christian website about how
    stupid it is to believe in God. Well, I am here to say that the Christian faith
    is very much an intelligent faith, one based in fact. If you would like to hear
    an intelligent defense of the Christian faith, why don't you pick up a couple of
    books by Josh McDowell, a former atheist (who graduated at the top of his class
    by the way), who was actually saved by God while trying to disprove the Bible's
    authenticity. Also, if you think that Christians are unintelligent (most
    college students think everyone other than themselves are less intelligent
    because they attended a couple of courses), please take a listen to James White.
    This man would walk over you in any debate. I say that not to berate you, but
    to encourage you to seek out knowledge and let that pursuit guide you. As you
    do this, you will undoubtedly end at God being the only way. There is ...
  • Damned by Glen1  - Apologetics...
    Doesn't that term, by its very nature, say that there is something that religion
    has to be sorry for? I do not deny that there are intelligent people in
    religions (more is the pity) but I do note that those people tend to be the ones
    on the receiving end of the tithes. Skipping all the evil religion has
    unleashed on the world (though I think there's a pretty good case to be made for
    religion being the single most destructive force ever unleashed by humanity),
    the only point I really need to bring up is the complete abscence of god.
    Science deals in measurable, reproducable evidence. There is none of that where
    god is concerned. And if there is, I would like to see it. Even I would change
    my story in the face of evidence.
  • Torrie  - Robbie Lester
    It is apparent you've never read the bible. If I were you, I would read it and
    also study the Christian preachers who have become Atheist. One day there will
    be no religion like John Lennon wanted, and Atheists will be in heaven. To the
    owner, this website is too slow. I won't return unless you buy more bandwidth.
  • DJ  - Torrie - Website Speed
    Not to worry, if you give it enough time, the website will eventually evolve
    more bandwidth and become a new species of website. This one will disappear
    without a trace leaving no transitional website forms. Could take a while though
    but time (and lots of it) solves all evolutionary problems.
  • Professor of History  - Torrie-Robbie Lester
    John Lennon again. Funny, he bought things like there was no tomorrow. Bought
    out whole stores full. Stashed it in storage. I would guess, if one's religion
    is what one acts in, that his was crass materialism. As my friend Josh said,
    "Talk is cheap." Then he(Josh-Joshua-Yeshua-JESUS) healed someone...

    Anyway, Lennon is dead, and his stuff is scattered or getting mildewed. Some
    religion, huh?
  • Glen  - Torrie
    Hello Torrie. I am so glad to hear you are reading the Bible I have read it
    front to back and Have found God to be very real. It is not a cult, honey.
    Jesus is who he says He is and you get the opportunity to either accept Him or
    reject Him. It is now your call. But remember one thing He calls you not the
    other way around. I will ask that He call you so that you will know who He is.
    Then if you reject Him it is your own fault. Only people who's consciences are
    seared don't feel guilt for inappropriate behaviors. They are called
    sociopaths. Sorry your the rest of your comments were chopped off.
  • Torrie  - Glen
    It is a cult, honey. The sociopaths in prisons, most all of them believe in
    God. Yes, I am glad I am reading the bible too, because the quickest way to
    become an Atheist is to read the bible. I wish all people could read it.
    Unfortunately, most people don't.
  • Glen  - No honey
    Torrie sweethert so lost. but you too can be found. And as far as those jail
    birds go. Good for them! Jesus is often found in jail and to your displeasure
    many of those will get into heaven while you are cast out, unless you choose to
    believe. It is not a cult, honey! Jesus came to divide the world. And Torrie
    you are the chaff and will be tossed out. So very sorry that you think reading
    the bible is the best way to be an athiest. There are many more sociopaths in
    public than is jail sister. The lack of guilt is a requisit of the stigma.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Cult; noun.
    A system of religious belief; the rites and ceremonies of any system of belief;
    a sect regarded as unorthodox or harmful to it's adherents; an intense devotion
    to a person, idea, etc.

    -Cassell Encyclopaedia Dictionary



    christianity fits every definition of the word.
  • john blackwell  - glen
    choosing not to look at evidence and consider it is choosing to be stupid.

    why is the bible the thing you choose to believe blindly?

    if its really the word of god, then any argument brought against it should be
    able to be refuted.

    is god not all powerful?
  • Glen  - More
    John Blackwell, to your angst, God is all powerful. He has demonstrated it by
    the act of becoming one of us. You don't accept that teastimony so you require
    more. I don't choose to be stupid John. I have not chosen to ignor evidence.
    And I am certainly not stupid. I am really about average, maybe upper average
    in intelligence. So that you have been told, God has already refuted every
    excuse you can make. His actions and His power have done that. Your rejection
    of Him is the problem Not that you charge me with being stupid. I will accept
    the charge if you will believe in Jesus of Nazareth!
  • Anonymous
    hey dude, so i agree with you but, when you talk to retards, like religious
    fundamentalists you have yo use proper grammar and stuff. either youre 12 or you
    really dont speak english well. please! please! please! do not bring out side
    down with horrible grammar and syntax.
  • Anonymous
    I find it hilarious that you would call other people idiots and chastise
    someone's grammar without using capital letters and spelling errors.

    To be more on point, Glen, you could have actually refuted that point since some
    religions did not turn out Jesus-type individuals after the New Testament.
    However, you choose to be close-minded and ignorant. Do everyone a favor and
    don't post if you have nothing to add to a conversation.
  • Glen  - Annonymous
    Must have been tough growing up with that name? Maybe that is why you are such
    a grouch. Thanx for telling me what to do. Clearly I could not manage wothout
    you. You are the best! I will do everyone a favor and post as many times as I
    see fit! You are no body! as your name suggests. Your words are equally
    vacant. I was niether closed minded or ignorant. It is your emptyness that
    shines through.
  • Antitheist1  - Good point!
    God is rubber, you are glue!
  • Glen
    God is Spirit and truth I am His son.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Whoa!
    Taking up the mantle, are we? Going for a bit of your own Deity-hood? That
    sort of statement would have ended me up with a bruise on the back of my head,
    before I decided to not take it anymore!
  • Est
    Hmmmm...googled Horus...doesn't nearly have the same story as Jesus.
  • Mikolaj Habryn  - A Special Introduction to the Bible
    Hi Ray!

    Congratulations on this project - it is a revolutionary idea, and has, I think,
    amazing potential for breaking the communications logjam between people of
    differing backgrounds and opinions.

    Following your lead, I've taken the liberty of drafting a similar "Special
    Introduction" for the Bible, and have just published a first draft of it for
    review at http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgz9c3n9_20f2gvnddk

    Since my introduction is intended to be easy for people to print and insert into
    as many Bibles as they have access to, it is much smaller and simpler than
    yours, but I ought confess that I drew inspiration from more than just your
    idea. In fact, I chose to follow the structure and style of your introduction
    very closely, and I'd like to give you due credit for providing such an
    excellent model.

    I'm concerned that you or others might see this as being crude humour, parody,
    or s...
  • Mikolaj Habryn  - remainder of truncated post:
    I'm concerned that you or others might see this as being crude humour, parody,
    or satire, and I'd like to reassure you that it isn't intended in that way at
    all. It is my greatest hope that this introduction will find it way into as many
    Bibles as possible, throughout homes, hotels and libraries, to inform, educate,
    and build stronger and more rational faith throughout the world, a goal that I
    know you feel as strongly about as I do.

    I intend to have a complete version of this special introduction ready for your
    launch on Thursday, and though there are not likely to be any new Bibles
    pre-printed with it before that day, I trust that the same spirit that underpins
    your distribution of Origin of Species will encourage all the people of the
    world to insert this introduction into the Bibles that already exist.

    Sincerely,
    Mikolaj Habryn
  • Perry Chason
    So you admit Origin of Species is your and other atheists' equivalence to the
    Holy Bible? Spectacular. And you say atheism is not a religion...
  • John S  - Way to put words in his mouth.
    He merely tried to put the situation in terms you could understand.
    Believing the Origin of Species to contain a grain of truth is not the same as
    worshiping it as a divine manuscript.
    I read many things which I find to be true. They are not my bible.
  • UT undergrad  - This is beautiful!
    I love how the only response is "So you admit Origin of Species is the
    atheist's Bible."

    Way to duck and dodge in true Christian nature!
  • greg  - The fool hath said...
    Thank u for your work Ray..We pray God's blessing on the distribution of the
    truth... Do not be discouraged, # 2 Peter 3:3
    Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking
    after their own lusts,
    2 Peter 3:2-4 (in Context) 2 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
  • Arelly Bradley
    A couple of people and I will be distributing these books tomorrow in England!
    Please pray for us! To God be the glory!
  • Robin  - Arelly Bradely
    Hi

    can you disclose the area where you will be disrtibuting these books?

    Are you somewhere in the North East if then you can have a volunteer.
  • Arelly Bradley
    Hello,
    We had a great time passing out books. We had not even started setting up and
    people were coming up to us wanting a copy. Some said that Charles Darwin's
    ideas were "refreshing"...........and another guy came back with the
    introduction saying he did not need it. Other than that there were many people
    receiving the books. Lord willing....i hope they read it and were convicted of
    there sin and repented and turn to the Lord. We passed out books in
    Cambridge..just around the University. God Bless!
  • Anne  - Will be giving this to my future father-in-law/pro
    Thank you Kirk and Ray for being such bold evangelists for God's kingdom:). I
    just bought a copy and will be giving this to my future father-in-law who is a
    doctor/professor. Like many college grads he believes in evolution but with
    prayer and witnessing, hopefully that will change. I have faith that it will:).
    God can change the hardest of hearts..He changed mine. If any Christian reads
    this post, please pray for him:). "With God all things are possible." I
    will continue to pray for this outreach and will be praying Nov. 19. I know this
    outreach will turn many to the Truth of Christ! Your reward will be great in
    heaven:). God bless you guys!



    "If God is for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:31

  • Curtis  - Believers vs non-believers
    The problem with these two disparate groups is that they both have chosen to
    believe in something they have no way to truly know or understand. Evolution is
    flawed and creationism is ridiculous and certainly does nothing to prove the
    existence of it's patron trinity deity. The fight between the two of you is as
    insignificant as two senseless beings arguing over which direction the sun
    rises. For your own sanity I suggest you both stop believing, although my
    entertainment at your expense shall surely be interrupted by such change.
  • Happy Chap
    Atheism is the right way to go!!! It is not blocked by stupid unbelievable
    religious fascists who believe in an unproved God and diluted morals!!! Atheist
    is the way for life!!!You are able to believe what you wish and are not
    controlled by medieval values!!!
  • mnevins987  - You are so Sad
    I will pray for you. You may not like it but I will anway. And the thing is
    this, there is nothing you can do about it. I will look on your face on
    Judgement Day, when you are standing there nakid and shivering with fear of the
    All Mighty God as He passes sentance. What a shame.
  • Antitheist1  - Such beauty!
    ...is to be found in such vengeful words. You sound so much like a child whose
    lollipop has just been taken; "I'm gunna be BIG one day, and I'm gunna tell
    MOMMY, and you're gonna get in TROUBLE, and I'm gonna LAUGH!"

    ie. You couldn't do a durn thing about what Happy Chap said, and your idea of
    victory is to get in the last word. Your prayer won't work either. They won't
    work any more than trying to throw stretch-limos with your mind.

    And yet for some reason, you seem to believe that prayer actually does
    something. What a sham.
  • Common Sense  -  blindly believe
    Who wouldn't believe a "virgin" gave birth to god's son, who could turn
    water to wine, walk on water, heal leprosy, and oh ya,come back from the dead.
    This Darwin guy with all his research, who's he trying to fool. Theory of
    Evolution, He's just like that Isaac Newton with his crazy theory of gravity!
    I'm sure they are both burning in Hell! Hey, any body want to go stone some
    non-believers? praise the lord!
  • robert  - learn how to spell
    you make his point you do fit into the lower iq section lol!
  • Glen  - Hi-larry-yous
    Spelling is a nicely creative sport. Is this very best argument you can fathom?
    I admit that I get into a great big rush, then neglect a proof reading. But hey
    big deal. I simply laugh at myself for the errors. It has zippo to do with
    intelligence. My very first question to such people is, " Did you
    understand it?". If they did then the point is really moot. One is just
    trying to appear greater through arrogance. If one did not understand then one
    ask a question? An intelligent person should demonstrate thier position without
    belitteling the putative lesser.
  • Glenn Drodge  - The attack is not from atheists
    Ray Comfort asks, "Besides, if they think my arguments have no merit, why
    are they so upset? They should actually enjoy the fact that I'm spreading more
    of my idiotic claims that intelligent students will see right through - that way
    my stupidity will be that much more apparent."



    I do enjoy the fact that Ray Comfort is spreading more of his idiotic claims
    around North America, and I do believe that intelligent students will see
    through this nonsense. Religious brainwashing seems to only assemble in the
    lower IQ quartile our society, of which Ray Comfort is a proud member. Thus

    Mr. Comfort is correct
  • Glen  - Nanny, naay, boo, boo.
    The above coment is an extreme example of the highly intellectual members of
    scociety sticking thier necks out by say Nanny, nany, boo, boo. Intellect does
    not resort to name calling and bashing of this sort. It is simply beneath even
    the putative lowwer IQ calls this person claims to be above. See thruth has
    nothing to do with intelligence. In feact the opposite is true. The hihg the
    intelligence the greater the doubt facter. Unbelief in God's testimony is akin
    to calling Him a liar. He is completely Holy, there is no darkness, lie, in
    Him. Glenn, you testify to your own deficiencies.
  • Steve, M. Div  - I see Jesus...
    This is sad. Like two parents yelling at each other while their kids run away.
    800 million people live on less than two dollars a day, homeless people fill our
    streets, children without parents and people without anything or anyone, and
    Christians want to debate evolution. Perhaps we should let God stand up for
    Himself, and start standing up for those we can help. Reading these posts is
    heartbreaking
  • KerryJ  - You feel have to lie and deceive? How UN-Christia
    You're lying and deceiving - you are NOT distributing the original work of
    Charles Darwin - you are distributing YOUR VERSION of it.

    Disgusting. The end doesn't justify the means. What an UN-Christian thing to do.
  • Micah Turner  - you just keep coming back for more
    1.
    "You ... are so imprissoned with this notion
    that there is no proof"

    Didn't you state that there is "no proof" for evolution?

    2.
    First: "Your eyes are closed and your ears are deaf"
    and then:" He is the primary concern for me." As if to say that studying
    about the universe is unimportant.

    Hold yourself up to the same standard you do jordo and read a book, do research,
    actually learn about evolution, astronomy, physics.

    You also seem to imply that the fact that there is no proof is unimportant...!
    As if it's completely outlandish to deny the existence of a benevolent god
    "just because there isn't proof".

    YOUR eyes are closed and YOUR ears are deaf if you just won't loosen up enough
    and stop being too afraid to actually learn something about the universe.
  • Glen  - My My testy aren't we?
    1) No I did not state there is no proof. I stated that you are improsoned by
    your thoughts of no proof. Try again!

    2) As if? How drol! You have comanded this concern not I!

    "Implications of no proof" again is a comanded falsehood from you not
    I.

    Micah Turner, Here I am. Come and get me!
  • Kaylie Wilson  - Do you truly believe?
    I have to wonder, if you truly believe creationism is right, and evolution is
    wrong, why then did you "disguise" your argument in a book about
    evolution? Is it possible you have little faith in you argument and worry the
    general population will disregard it if you were to just write a book about your
    argument? Instead you place an intro into Darwin's book, because perhaps this is
    the only way the world will know what you think. Or maybe, you have no faith at
    all......OR! You really are just trying to **** *** the Atheists!
  • Rick  - K. Wilson - I weep for you!
    You are so quick to jump to arguments that attempt to disprove creationism. As
    Ray and Kirk have directed, they are using the text, The Origin of Species,
    because so many atheists believe "blindly". It is realized that many of
    these people will never even attempt to hear a valid argument against evolution
    unless it is thrown directly in front of them; ergo- Placed in the foreword of
    Darwin's ramshackle lie - which is celebrating its anniversary this month.
  • Tom (Shawano)  - Have you researched yourself??
    Kaylie... Ray has not hidden anything. He has been the author of many books on
    the subject, held debates with known atheists on national television and invites
    any evolutionist or atheist to come to the mic as he open air preaches every
    Saturday at Huntington Beach, California. The books are read by all...Ask
    yourself this... If Ray were to "disguise" his argument, would he and
    those helping, tell the world about the introduction to "Origin of the
    Species" long before it is being given out... hmmmm just a thought! Have a
    wonderful day!
  • Sandra Carlson  - On the fence
    So,
    What do I think about evolution and creationism? I don't know to be honest. Both
    make good points, but both have holes in their theories. Evolutionists still
    haven't proved everything, but how can we when all we're working with are
    fossils and other materials that are hundreds of years in age? But Creationists
    argue God created everything and that's it. But show me your God and I'll
    believe you. Saying this God, which you cannot see you can only believe he/she
    is standing there, would be like if I said "here is an invisible magical
    unicorn that will grant you eternal life if you just accept he/she into your
    life and accept that the Unicorn created everything". You can't see the
    Unicorn, you will never see the Unicorn (until you die that is), you just have
    to BELIEVE it is there. Conveniently, Christianity says you will only see their
    God once you are dead, so if by some chance you don't see this heaven or hell
  • Glen  - Show me!!!
    Philip asked Jesus this very question. Are you aware of that? Word for word.
    Jesus told Philip and the rest of the 12 this very tidbit, "Don't you know
    me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has
    seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'". (John
    14:9) With your example there has never been a mystical unicorn to place belief
    in. Jesus on the other hand has come in the flesh to remove the excuse of
    invisibility, among other things. The One has come. The One has shown Himself.
    The One has placed Himself in the direct path of the power of death and
    concoured it! BTW: Jesus has stated clearly that He will show Himself to those
    that beleive in Him. No waiting child.
  • craig  - soooo
    Every man has been given a measure of faith. I implore you to try. just
    because a billion or so people refuse to believe there is a God doesn't make it
    true. If you lived dowwn stream from a dam and a helicopter landed in your yard
    and said get on board a 30ft. wall of water is bearing down on you. Would you
    say , show me proof or I won't get on board, or I don't need anyone to save
    me((pride). The bible says God resists the proud, we must come to him as a
    little child. This is God's world, just because we don't like the rules or the
    way we think God has handled things won't excuse us when we stand before him.
  • Damned by Glen1  - The simple counter to that...
    ...is just because a few billion people believe in a deity(s) doesn't make it
    the case either. Prayer never made me feel full when I was hungry, never made
    injuries heal, never brought dead friends back, never kept my relationships
    whole, and never put a few bucks in my bank account when I needed to pay rent.
    I had to do all that by actual, tried and true methods; ie. eat something, go to
    a doctor, suck it up and be a pallbearer when asked, treat my friends with
    respect and consideration, and work at a job.



    Would you pray for rippling abs, or do some situps?
  • Sara Caldwell  - The Universities involved
    Will the campaign be reaching the campus at the University of Georgia? I am a
    news reporter with the Red&Black at UGA, and I'd like write something about this
    for the students.
  • Jay  - Where can I get one?
    Is there a list of schools they will be at so I can grab one of these books?
  • DAN SWEETING  - THANKS RAY KIRK AND ALSO GLEN!!!!!!!
    Thankyou all for the stand for truth you are taking, there is so much evidence
    out there for the supernatural evidence of the bible's origin as well as for the
    creation of the universe by God. Finally those of us who have taken God at his
    word and repented and asked Christ into our lives have the constant experience
    of his reality with us and in us.



    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!!
  • Steve  - Truth? Rational?
    I just downloaded and read the PDF version of the introduction.

    Why do some Christians feel the need to convolute, misrepresent and vilify
    science and scientific findings to suit their beliefs? It's deceitful and
    contrary to the teachings they profess to honor. I must say, as a Christian and
    a scientist (Yes, we do exist.), I find the mistruths and leaps in logic
    alarming.

    The pervasiveness of anti-intellectualism in the Evangelical Christian community
    does more to convert people to Agnosticism, Atheism, Taoism, Buddhism, ... than
    science does. Science isn
  • Jeremy  - Completely agree
    Well spoken. As a fellow Christian and scientific mind, I completely agree - the
    idea that religion and science necessarily must be enemies baffles me, but
    what's even more frustrating are those who further insist upon turning it into
    some sort of culture war in which people like you and I are caught in the
    middle.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Yeah, they did real good!
    I've been damned, AND e-excorsized! For asking questions! For pointing out the
    pointless violence!



    There was a time when I thought I couldn't get further away from god...thanks to
    the people here, I know I was wrong.



    Best to keep fighting.
  • FresnoJoe  - Rational?
    Is It Rational?



    You turn things upside down! Is the potter no better than his clay? Can
    something that has been made say about its maker, "He didn't make me"?
    Can a piece of pottery say about the potter, "He doesn't understand"?

    Psalms 29:16 (GWT)



    Is It Wise?



    You, Lord, at the first did put the earth on its base, and the heavens are the
    works of your hands:

    Hebrews 1:10 (BBE)



    To Trust In The Evolution Mythos



    See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception,
    according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the
    world, rather than according to Christ.

    Colossians 2:8 (NASB)



    While Turning Away From Jesus



    Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in
    departing from the living God.

    Hebrews 3:12 (KJV)



    For The Fleeting Joy Of Sin
    <...
  • Boko999
    "The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot
    nor tittle will be removed," he said.



    From the Living Waters Canadian website:



    "This special 280-page edition not only contains an abridged Origin of
    Species but also has a 50-page Introduction that reveals the dangerous fruit of
    evolution, Hitler's undeniable connections to the theory, Darwin's racism, and
    his disdain for women."
  • Troy A
    "He has allowed you to exist and know that you exist even though you
    hate Him. I know. You cannot comprehend this."

    Amazing that you know this. I thought only god could read our hearts. I guess
    you can too.

    And "His perfection is demonstrated in our imperfections in
    this" sounds like something Oral Roberts or some other loony coined.

    You also seem to know and understand god's motives for creation, past what has
    been explained in the Bible. Did you dream these things or are you a prophet?
  • Glen  - Truely amazing
    Troy, yes it is truely amazing! It is also amazing that you know God can read
    your heart yet scorn comes out of it. Oral Roberts did not come up with these
    words. Your last sentence indicates you have intimate knowledge of what is
    written in the books of the bible. It is good that you have read and understood
    it in its entirety. Spritual things are discerned spiritually. If you don't
    have the Spirit you don't have the answer. Really to understand your comments
    on My knowledge I would need more words from you concerning what it is you are
    speaking of.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Careful, Troy!
    You might end up damned as well!

    G-man; You really don't need more info out of Troy here, the question was
    direct:



    "Did you dream these things or are you a prophet?"



    I don't see much wiggle room for a rephrasing here. Maybe the answer is just
    inconvenient, so you shirk the question, as you have with me so many times.
    Sucks to be backed into a corner, don't it?

  • Jason Corbin  - Good
    It is a good idea to no longer answer questions about the "new" Origin
    book. If I was in Mr. Comfort's shoes, I would also seek to distance myself
    from any critical inquiry, as it could never end positively for me.
  • Robin
    Evan,



    The bible is book of fulfilled prophesies.

    There are so many just to name a few:

    The nation of Israel was prophesied even before there was any jew or the nation.
    The scattering of the people of Israel due to disobedience, The coming of the
    Messiah, The birth palce of the messiah, Rise and fall of great emperors and
    nations like Alexander the great. The suffering of the messiah, the resurruction
    of the the messiah, the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and many more.

    You would be intersted to know that there are more prophesies about the coming
    of the Lord Jesus again, but you will not beleive unless it happens and there
    you miss it again because of your unbelief.

    Seek the lord while He my be found and seek forgiveness because either ways
    death or return of Jesus, you will be damned to eternal judgement if you do not
    beleive.

    Now its the time of Grace and Mercy but then it will be a time o...
  • Tony  - Comfort is not being entirely honest.
    Rays introduction is a particularly pathetic rehash of classic creationist
    arguments which have been repeatedly refuted and then it concludes with an
    appeal to creationist thinking under the guise of apologetics.

    If atheists are upset about Rays introduction to OOS, then they need to view a
    much more prominent work called "The Skeptics Annotated Bible", which
    offers an in-depth, line-by-line criticism of the bible.

    Fair is fair. If atheists can add their critique to the bible, creationists
    should also be afforded the same tactic.

    For the most part, however, atheists, like scientists, expect EVERY scientific
    theory to be severely criticized, even their own. It is an essential process
    called "peer-review". Some scientist even peer-review themselves and
    falsify their own theories.

    Peer-review keeps the whole thing honest, even if not always entirely accurate.
    Rays publishing of OOS ...
  • Mark
    There's a big difference between writing a book comparing and contrasting
    Evolutionism and Creationism, and writing an introduction of The Origin of
    Species that is about creationism. Ray Comfort has written "Nothing Created
    Everything." Why isn't he satisfied with that? Why does he want to be
    intellectually dishonest and hand out a copy of The Origin of Species that has a
    contradictory introduction in it?" No atheist would print a copy of the
    bible with an intro to it telling the atheistic point of view. We'd be stoned,
    or otherwise vilified. Why is this right?

    IT'S INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST!
  • Glen  - Is that the very best you can do?
    Intellectually dishonest? Really is that all you can say? Just throw it out
    because Mark has spoken! That's intellectually dishonest! Poppycock, Mark!
    Your inability to recognize truth does not make Ray's introduction
    Intellectually dishonest in the least little bit.



    IT IS NOT INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST!



    Mark, you on the other hand may be another story!
  • Glen  - The moral of Murder
    Much farther down within these posts someone asked me specifically about My
    opinion on the moral issue of murder and attempted to equate his with both Mine
    and Gods. I want to answer the question here. His question is a trap and I'll
    not be caught in it. In Mathew 5:21-22 Jesus says this about this sin. It does
    not matter what I think. It matters what He thinks. It is His perfect
    standards that He will judge by not mine. Can anyone stand in the light of this
    knowledge of God's Holiness? Can you say I have never hated anyone? Even that
    guy that cut you off intraffic this morning? The better question is what are
    you gonna do about it? g
  • Al  - Its quite sad...
    that in order to prove a point (what that point is any-more, I'm not sure that
    the deluded can even put their finger on ...), a text that has, beyond any
    reasonable doubt, advanced our understanding of the planet we inhabit and our
    origins is being defaced by god bothering halfwits, hell bent on perpetuating
    primitive and obsolete beliefs.

    The sheer number of posters here who do not understand the term Theory when
    applied in a scientific sense is also frightening. Obviously if you dispute the
    "Theory" of Evolution, you in turn dispute the "Theory" of
    Gravity, or the "Theory" of Relativity...? Thought not - please, no
    "because I can see it!" straw-men responses to this post. The
    creationists - I refuse to use the term ID, as there is nothing intelligent
    about it - also ignore the fact that Human's domesticated the dog 12,000 or so
    years ago....

    Its the 21st Century; that idio...
  • Glen  - Not logical
    To say that disputing one theory means that one dispute all theories is not
    logical. Take a deep breath and come back to reality. I love the way you did
    not use the term intelligent design. I am glad you have seen that there is a
    great deal of intelligence to it. After all you have yet to understand the
    entirty of creation in your absolute intelligence. What is sad is the highly
    intelligent must resort only to belittling these putative god bothering people
    using words like halfwit then using thier self appointed authority degrade even
    the message as being primitve and obsolete. Finally I just had to
    say..."Because I can see it!" A demonstrastion of your lack of
    authority.
  • Shannon, M.Div.  - Hmm.
    Would someone like to publish a new edition of Martin Luther's "Preface to
    Romans" with an introduction highlighting some of his more egregious
    anti-Semitic statements?
  • evan  - prophecy
    well what physical evidence is there that any of the so called prophecy has
    become a fact? if so i would love to hear it. are u saying that the only
    prophecy that is fact has been from the bible? well i encourage u to look at the
    works of Nostradamus and Leonardo da Vinci
    Many prophecies are open to interpretation so how something have a factual
    backing when it a person some how thought that was what the writings were
    saying.

    on a second note how can you or any one prove that the bible was just written by
    some one that was divinely inspired, how is it not certain that they were just
    drunk or high off their religious butts.

    on another note how can there be so many contradictions in a book that is said
    to be with out flaw? take for example how can in exodus 20 god send his
    commandants say thou shall not murder when a latter in the same book the
    Israelite people basically canalize genocide of all the peo...
  • Glen  - Prophecy
    Even, your comical satire was most enjoyable. Can you write more? I
    particularly ejoyed how you have no idea what so ever about how many biblical
    prophecies have been fulfilled. It just staggers my mind. Do some research
    into it first. But here is one prophecy Jesus spoke of that is perfect. It has
    been fulfilled. It is only one but you asked for only one. Jesus spoke of the
    temple in Jerusalem. The people were in awe of it and speaking of how majestic
    it was and He told them that not one stone would be left on top of the other.
    Look around it is just as He said. g
  • Antitheist1  - Prophthetic.
    The bible only 'proves' prophecies it contains within itself, the rest must be
    interpreted and so we can never know whether they have been interpreted
    correctly or not ("I tell you the truth, all these things will come to pass
    before this generation...")and even if they are, they've already happened so
    many times that there's no way to know which one is the fulfillment. And there
    is still a temple in Jerusalem, serveral, in fact. People are killing eachother
    over them as we speak.
  • Glen  - prophecy--real time
    Revelation 11. all of it. Please read it yourself space restrictions prevent me
    from includiing the passage. Sounds freaky doesn't it! ONLY in the time when
    this was written 1) How can every person in the world look upon thier dead
    bodies for three days? 2) How can information about thier deaths be disseminated
    to the entire known world be done in three days? This prophecy is unfolding
    before your very eyes! Never before in the history of the world has there been
    technology availible to see what is going on in real time than NOW!
  • Glen  - drunk or high
    People that perform these behaviors are interested in self. They want to get
    drunker and higher. Never do they speak to nations and peoples to repent and
    turn to God! Alway solving in bars or in secret things they know nothing about
    and then forgetting anything tomorrow. People inspired by the Holy Spirit do one
    thing; sacrifice thiemselves for your benefit. Drunkard nor addict nor
    pharmakeutikos nor pharmakeia will do anything with the present of the creator
    to your salvation.
  • Antitheist1  - Just curious here...
    ...did you forget the first miracle jesus performed?

    And are you truly telling people to stop taking thier medicines? This is one
    I'm pretty passionate about, so you'll allow me to remind you that your advice
    here KILLS PEOPLE! Chill out, man! Have a brewski!
  • Glen  - contradictions
    This is the leading plea of the non-believer tending towards the atheistic. The
    one thing that stands out to me is the athiest will demand God destroy him them
    get mad when he does! Consequently other athiests will use that destruction to
    further his hatred and turning it into putative proof that God does not exist!
    It is good though that you have knoledge of the rules God has laid down for your
    conviction! You no longer have any excuse.
  • Antitheist1  - Agree, or maybe not?
    Hey, I've begged god to kill me in my past. he wouldn't even do me that favour.
    Why? The only way it would not be a contradiction is if there is no god, and I
    was wrong to think there was. My life only turned around when I stopped
    believing in stories and started doing things for myself.
  • Glen  - prophecy--interpretation
    This is another excuse used to negate the validity of God's demonsrtation that
    He knows our future. If you must interpret the prophecy it is no good. Try to
    interpret God's statements that the country He made would be reborn in one day!
    That nation is called by His name! That country being exiled for 2 thousand
    years is now upon us! ISRAEL! Nostro and da Vinci are so common in today's
    circles. Nostro is confusing at best. daVinci is nothing but a artist to me
    and an unbelievably good one at that! I know nothing about any of his
    predictions of future events.
  • Antitheist1  - Totally off the mark!
    There's no nation called 'yashua' or 'yahweh,' and last I checked, the name of
    your god is not 'isreal.' As to the second part, what if the Gypsies formed a
    country called 'jehova?' See...THAT would fulfill the prophecy without need for
    interpretation.

    And agreed on DaVinci. Fantastic artist and inventor.
  • Glen  - prophecy from bible only?
    Good question! Now you are asking for meat instead of milk. This topic is
    covered extensively in the bible. You have demonstrated good knoledge of the
    info inside those books known as the bible but fail to know the exactions given
    for real prophecy? Real prophesy give by God? I ecourage you to look for it.
    You will not accept my testimony. Go into it and find it out!
  • Antitheist1  - Which would make...
    My claim that a steel ball released from my hand would hit the floor, if nothing
    interfered with it, prophecy. ie. A prediction that comes true.
  • Glen  - prophecy--Jesus
    Read John 3 all of it. Jesus told the lady and us that God would not be
    worshiped in Jerusalen or the hills of Samaria. Done! It was fulfilled when
    the Romans kicked Judah out of the land of their inheritance. 70AD.



    do you need more?
  • Glen  - oops
    I meant John 4 not John 3.
  • Antitheist1  - YES! I have a question!
    Why didn't god tell any of those people the names of any modern technologies?
    Seems like it shoulda been a breeze, and it would've cleared things up a bit.



    THE END IS NEAR(er)!!!
  • Glen
    He did. You should read revelation. But even prophecy will no help you.
  • Damned by Glen1  - ...
    ...no, he mentioned grasshoppers with scorpion tails there...
  • Glen
    Ya ever see the insects the defense department are making to spy and imobilize
    the enemy? Try it out. You might just be enlightened. BTW the ones you'll see
    are only the ones they want you to know about.

  • Damned by Glen1  - Point taken.
    I have indeed seen some creepy things. However, I know they won't be
    sustainable. They simply cost too much for society to justify in the long run.
    I do wonder, though, just how badly destroyed the world economy will have to be
    before the right-wing christians in the White House realize that feeding people
    generally means you won't have to fight them after supper...
  • Antitheist1  - It is fulfilled...
    ...at every second of every day. Anyone who is not actively in the process of
    worshipping is NOT worshipping in those places.



    I don't NEED anymore, but I would LIKE a backrub!
  • cue
    evan:
    The hebrew words for kill and murder are unfortunately not differentiated in
    some translations. You will find with some basic study that the words are
    different. The commandment uses the word 'murder', not 'kill'.

    But Im not going to play this game with you. You KNOW that the world did not
    create itself. Your conscience tells you that you are damned to hell if you do
    not submit to God. So I wont play this game with people who deceive themselves
    so that they can be their own little god. There is PLENTY of evidence to
    convince anyone of God. And PLENTY of evidence to convince anyone that
    macro-evolution is a load of mind-dumbing hog-wash.

    Blessings.
  • S. Britton  - Why are most atheists so mean?
    I've ready most of these posts and wonder why, if you dont believe in God, why
    should you care so passionately that I do? And why be so hateful about it? It
    just makes me wonder what's behind all that anger. (very Freudian) If you really
    dont believe, then graciously accept that other people do, because it really
    shouldnt matter to you anyway.

    Thanks LW for this website.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Because, S...
    ...those beliefs are killing people. I don't blame you specifically, but
    religion in general, especially if it gets ahold of political power. If you
    want to know why I fight, and why I feel I must, then go to the website
    www.apostatesofislam.org and watch the video of a couple getting stoned. Then,
    as you watch, recall that not a hundred years ago, christians were doing live
    burnings.



    I fight here to protect my daughters, aged 3 and 5, from that kind of violence.



    You never know which belief will get you killed.



    But thank you for asking honestly. I hope you can understand me, and I welcome
    further discussion.
  • Renato
    I am sorry that you have that fear but understand that just because someone
    claims to be christian doesn't mean they are.( I only speak of christians
    because I am one) In 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 it reads

    "13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves
    into the apostles of Christ.

    14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the
    ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." A
    person's lack of understanding in what they believe in will cause him/her to do
    things that shouldn't be done. I hope you can search the scrpitures and find the
    answers you need and not look at the action that some people make.



  • Troy A  - You want one error? You got it.
    A "perfect" god created flawed beings. That is far more unbelievable
    than creating something from nothing. Sheesh.
  • Glen  - Troy A
    Yes he sure did. His perfection is demonstrated in our imperfections in
    this...are you ready? He allowed us to choose to love Him or not. Should He
    have created beings that were nothing but automitons then there would be no
    demonstration of His love. Just a bunch of robots. Instead there are
    passionate men and women demonstrating His kindness and love. He even love you
    so much that He has allowed you to exist and know that you exist even though you
    hate Him. I know. You cannot comprehend this. Best of luck to ya.

    g
  • Antitheist1  - Love machines
    Are only any good if they choose it, right? So you're saying that god LETS us
    choose, eh? Right. The same way you give a 7-11 store clerk the choice to hand
    over the money or eat a 12-guage load of buckshot in the guts.



    HA! Choice my derrier!
  • evan  - what if we turn the tables
    how would u and many other Christians feel, react or like it if a group of
    Atheists got together and wrote a forward to a bible just bashing everything you
    have a so called faith in and just saying its all a bunch of hog wash.

    in turn i believe that there is more prof in evolution then in the bible or any
    of its so called teachings. A simple fact that can not be proven is that jesus
    was born of a virgin. The ark of the covenant, the holy grail, or that this book
    was written by some holy spirit that inspired them to write.

    and don't say faith is the answer to all of these questions, give a logical
    reason for why you believe what you do.
  • Maggie  - Prophecy
    The Bible clearly shows that whoever wrote it knew the end of human history from
    the beginning. No human could do this. I suggest you look into this aspect of
    the Bible it's what convinced me to take the message within it's pages
    seriously. Prophecy is both prediction and pattern. Check it out for your self
    before you criticise it.
  • Mt  - interesting
    So you are saying Origin of the Species is eauivalent to the Bible. So Origin
    of the Species is the Atheists scriptures. Interesting.
  • Dave  - reply to your comment...
    ..."if a group of Atheists got together and wrote a forward to a bible just
    bashing everything you have a so called faith in..."

    You have GOT TO BE kidding right??!?

    The Bible has been diagnosed, dissected, discussed and slandered by
    non-believers since it came into existence. Christians are mocked, tortured and
    killed the world over because of it. What's to hate? What part of peace &
    kindness do you have a problem with? "love your fellow man, etc."

    Why can everybody else "slander" us in the most vicious manner and yet
    when we make a gentle nudge, simply trying to show our point of view, we are met
    with hatred, mockery and intolerance?

    Mr. Comfort's writing a 50 page forward to such a powerful book as "Origin
    of the Species" shouldn't be looked upon as something threatening... treat
    it as what it is - an opportunity!

    Y'know... it's like if something broadca...
  • Damned by Glen1  - And yet...
    ...the christians STILL haven't realized that the bible is just plain incorrect!
    Not only that, IT IS KILLING PEOPLE! Right now!



    Those 'gentle nudges' you speak of so flippantly included slow-roasting,
    scourging, racking, compressing, war, rape, and full-blown genocide. So far,
    athiest slander has been really, really gentle.



    ...ha...point of view...
  • Antitheist1  - Not a bad idea!
    I propose the writing of a bible in which the footnotes point out and show the
    scientific data rather translation notes. I'm wondering how kindly the
    religious advocates would take to THAT being distributed! "In the
    beginning, there was god and the word1..."

    -1)No data supports this.
  • Don  - Why does this Origins project bother you all so mu
    It is interesting to read some of the comments posted.



    If people are confident in their beliefs then this should not be an issue. We
    should encourage people to make educated decisions about life in general, why we
    are here, what happens when we die, etc. If reading Ray
  • Sara
    Evolution is fact. You don't have to believe in it to make it real. Educate
    yourself.
  • Glen  - Sara
    Since you regard yourself as educated you should then know it is impossible to
    do on your own power, skill or even intelligence level. Learning is alway done
    in this sequence; 1) observe, 2) mimick, 3) master. In order to learn anything
    from anyone the student must follow and alway does follow these steps. So in
    regard to eduating ourselves we must follow a master. As you have followed your
    master we follow ours.

    And it takes a great deal more faith to believe evolution than it does Jesus.

    g
  • Robin  - Sara,
    May we know by what authority or experience are you saying that eVolUTion is a
    FacT&%$
    How can you prove evolution? And please do not say science or any argument that
    is worn out by now on this site...any new discoveries while I was away praying?
    Please bring it on..
    The bible is word of God because God says it is.
    Education is not the beginning of understanding
    Fear of God is beginning of wisdom and understanding.
  • Lisa
    Sara evolution is a theory, not fact. Darwin himself stated in his book that his
    theory could be proven wrong. It has been proven wrong many times but is still
    taught to school children as fact.

    If you want all the facts you might want to read a book called the Case For
    Christ by Lee Strobel. He is a former athiest and journalist.

    Its amazing what he finds out from some very prominent, even Nobel Prize
    winning, scientists. Worth a look!



    God Bless!
  • Ted  - Ted - Lisa
    Please cite one published, peer-reviewed case where evolution has been
    disproven. Evolution of man from a common ancestor shared with other apes is
    indeed a theory which can probably never be fully proven in a way that will end
    these debates. The principles of evolution however, are observable, testable
    facts, and techniques based upon them are used in laboratories around the world
    every day.
  • Glen  - peer review
    Sorry buddy your peer review process is bias from the start. The only peers you
    accept review from are the evolution accepting science geeks. These guys have
    no other way of thinking. They never step outside the evolution arena. As a
    result getting a peer reviewed article out of them in not possible. First, they
    will not allow any papers to get into thier periodicals and second they won't
    allow grants to be issued to invetigate anything other than evolutionary theory.
    The extreme bias prohibits proper scintific examination of evidence.

    My citation though comes before science was ever invented. It is called the
    book of Genesis. By the way, it has been peer reviewed several times over.
  • Mike  - Peer review
    Genesis has been peer reviewed? Really? By who? I thought there was only one
    God? Please tell me who is God's peer.

    There is clearly anger by some on both sides of this argument. Your anger and
    hatred of those who don't believe like you puts you in the same place as those
    "evolution accepting science geeks." Condemn me all you want, it won't
    convince me there is a loving God out there. Damn me to hell if you
    prefer.....it still won't prove any of your assumptions or beliefs.
  • Glen  - Mike
    Wow buddy I don't know what side of the bed you woke up on. Sorry to have
    offended you so terribly. The peer review that you speak of is of human origin.
    The peer review I speak of is also of human origin. God spoke it to us and we
    read it. Those that accept it are a peer review group just as those in the
    science field are. BTW: I have no anger against those that don't beleive as I
    do. It is more like sorrow and angst to get them to see what they refuse to
    see. At some point you just have to step aside and let the truck trounce them.
    I have made the effort. I don't pass judgement. I tell of judgement to come. I
    am truely sorry that you have set your heels in stone and rebell against God
    with such furvor. Yet you are still tesifying to the God of creation. You are
    not powerful enough to rebuke that.

    g
  • Mike  - Religious hatred
    Glen,
    I'm not surprised that you don't accept responsibility for your hatred of
    others. Instead you hide behind religious rhetoric. Where's your faith?
    Where's your courage? The only thing you've shown in all your posts is hatred.

    Could you please answer my question: who is God's peer? Since the bible was
    written by God, the only entity that could "peer review" it is another
    God. You've wrapped yourself up in your own rhetoric.

    Mike
  • Glen  - Hate
    Mike my friend your only ability is to hear hate. I have said no words in that
    vein. Humans usually hear what is inside thier own self when reading posts of
    this nature. My entire goal is for posters to hear how rediculous some for
    thier statemsnts are. So I use the lowest form of wit, sarcasm. It does not do
    a very good job of anything really. It usually just belittles me. That is why
    I wrote an appollogy to Andy concerning my contemptuous writtings. As for you it
    is clear that you will not be swayed from rebellion towards God. I really don't
    expect you to change. You are sealed!
  • andy1968  - Hate
    Mike, as an atheist I do not agree with much of what Glen says or thinks, but I
    can confirm that he did appologise for some contemptuous writings as he said.
    Glen, as you said in another post you will not accept anything when people
    question your faith, such as when Jesus spoke to the Pharasees - I can't
    remember the post. But has there ever been anything that has made you come close
    in the past to not believing in God and questioning your faith?



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - ?????
    As an inquisitive person i am very peaked to discuss this area. But I have some
    apprehension. Andy thanx for the admonition. I really have been doing little
    more than toying with you because you are not gonna move. I know it isd not a
    Chirt-like thing to do. That is why I sought forgivness by confessing to you.
    The only way you will move is to have "very good proof"--from one of
    your posts. So, until I can hone in on what it is that has derailed you I
    cannot ask God to help you in that direction. Some have the ability given by
    the Spirit to just know what it is that you'll need but I don't see that with
    you. It just has not been given. So let us discuss it. Tell me what derailed
    you and I will tell you what railed me.
  • Damned by Glen1  - A good point of discussion...
    I think I'll take it up. The following 'derailed' me, as you put it. 1.My best
    friend committed suicide at the age of 19. The best confort religion could
    offer was; none. 2.The rules I was brought up under were stupid to the extreme,
    and punishment for breaking any rule was a guilt trip that still bothers me to
    this day. 3.I studied the Shoah in depth, and found the catholic church so
    steeped in helping the nazis (the very word comes from the biblical 'nazirite')
    that I had to question whether other religions had done the same and, no
    surprize, I couldn't find a religion that had not assisted in mass slaughter at
    some point. Cont...
  • Damned by Glen1  - cont...
    4. I became an expert in the martial arts, and as such have become very familiar
    with how the human body works. The designs of various parts of the body are so
    poor as to leave no doubt that an omnipotent and omniscient being could have had
    no part in it's manufacture. 5. A friend of mine, who liked to dress in black
    for no real reason, had several church-goers shout 'satan's whore' at her over
    and over, leading me to doubt that there was any compassion to be seen in
    religion. Further study showed all religions to be of that bent. Cont...
  • Damned by Glen1  - cont2....
    6. While doing a practicum for emergency medicine, I had to explain to a
    kindergarten kid that we couldn't sew his daddy's head back on. Daddy was
    driving a sports car at high speed with jr. in the passenger seat when a
    semi-trailer drove into the intersection. The top of the car, containing
    daddy's head, was left on one side of the trailer. Jr. was unhurt. 7. When I
    found myself going through really tough times, everyone was so happy to 'pray'
    for me, but noone wanted to HELP! This proved to me that 'prayer' is just a way
    for people to feel justified in doing nothing.



    That's a start, though there's more, and a lot of it. See what you make of it
    thus far.
  • Antitheist1  - EH?
    Nothing there, Glen? No counter? No way to refute the horrors that are on this
    planet? Nothing to say about what 'derailed' me?

    See, this is what I'm talking about here; christians are so happy to tell you
    all about the bible and how it speaks to all of life and even the afterlife
    until a guy finds his best friend on the floor missing the better part of his
    head. Then all religion has to say is how that friend not only felt life too
    painful to live, but now he has to be tortured for the rest of time, too.
  • Renato
    I am sorry for all that you have been through. Unfortunately we all have to go
    through some things in our life that can sometimes be very hard to deal with.
    The book of Job can show about a man that went through some serious things. The
    problem that most christians forget is that prayer is key in our faith but... we
    are still dealing with people. Sometimes prayer is not the only thing needed.
    You actually have to counsel people. You have to deak with their emotions and
    try to help them get through the stormy times. One thing you should know is man
    will always fail you but God will never fail you. A person can't really change
    your feelings about something but we can help guide you to recovery. Your focus
    was so much a people helping you that you forgot to ask God for help. But in
    asking God for help you can't get mad if the outcome is not what YOU wanted. We
    tend to get angry or doubt God when what we pray for doesn't always happ...
  • Glen  - God's Peer
    I have not wrapped myself in anything like rhetoric. The spirit in you is
    twisting your thoughts to the sound of rhetoric. He has also given you the mind
    set to attempt to trap me in my speach. No! You will trap not me but yourself.
    Peer review is a solely Human concept designed to manage human error and control
    over what is written and what is read. The peer review I have stated stands!
    Humans over the centuries have read the books in the bible and have believed!
    To your contempt. I love spaeking about "where is my faith" though I
    don't know why you are questioning anything I have in the direction of God!?!?
    Must be because you know He is and is unsettles you.
  • Mike  - I'll answer the question
    Please Glen, the words that trapped you were yours not mine.

    The answer to my question: God has no peers. Therefore, anything written by God
    cannot be peer reviewed.

    I don't have contempt of Christians....although I can see how you could come to
    that conclusion. I've not been direct in addressing what I think of Christians.
    Let me set the record straight. I know many Christians and love them as friends
    a family. I appreciate these people of faith, they don't condemn me for who I
    am. They actually listen to me when I speak and don't judge me; they also
    passionately tell me what they believe. I pay them the same respect that they
    show me, I don't condemn them for their faith and listen to what they have to
    say. I wish more Christians would be like that, actually living by what they
    claim.

    I do have contempt for Christians, and others, that believe that I can only
    believe what they tell me t...
  • Glen  - Convicting in your own speach
    Mike it is good to hear you convict yourself by your own tongue. You know and
    have rejected. It is your own doing that has you tangled. Thank you so very
    much for telling everyone that you know God does not have any peers. This
    testamony from you is the reality of your situation. When a Putaive Christian
    accepts your anti-God position they also are guilty of your offense. So no I
    don't join in the crowd to accept the sinful behaviors. This infuriates you
    because the spirit within you cannot grab hold of me. I also don't condemn you.
    The law does that. And is perfect in its reach. All i do is remind you of it.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Number 2
    Found another hopeless case, eh G-man? What I fear for you that you'll find as
    you talk to more and more athiests is that they tend to be really quite
    well-versed in the religion that finally drove them to excommunicate themselves.
    Those that don't know tend to be agnostic.



    And the law still says nothing about owning slaves, other than that it's OK.
    I'm thinking that that's quite a gap in such a perfect system. And why was the
    world created twice? And why are there 15 '12 apostles' across the 4 gospels?
    And why does nearly every modern bible scholar agree that the 'go, and sin no
    more' story was added centuries later? If the bible is wrong about these
    things...
  • J  - Please look up "Peer review" before using the te
    The peer review you speak of is human origin? Apparently you do not understand
    the concept of "peer review". Allow me to give you a brief scientific
    breakdown of the process.

    1.) Scientist A finds that a specific strain of the Influenze virus is
    susceptible to a specific protein strain when introduced into the body's
    digestive tract.

    2.) Scientists B through X test scientist A's findings and gets the same
    results.

    3.) Scientist Y tests scientist A's findings and they don't work because he used
    a different strain of Influenza.

    4.) Scientists A through X all read through scientist Y's findings in order to
    better understand why the specific strain of Influenza they used wasn't affected
    by the proteins that affected their strain. In doing so, they are able to
    isolate specific genetic markers which separate the two strains and make one
    resistant to the protein treatment while the other i...
  • David  - "theory" is not synonymous with "blind guess"
    The scientific definition of theory is very different that the word's colloquial
    usage. Yes, a scientific theory is never said to be completely proven or itself
    a "fact", but it is a model with explanatory power, is supported by many
    facts, and makes testable predictions. To someone honestly weighing information,
    the theory of evolution seems only to be getting stronger as knowledge
    increases. That's not to say there is no God that started everything - that's
    simply not a scientific (testable) question.
  • S. Britton  - Not a fact
    I went to a VERY liberal college. However, I had one very open-minded science
    teacher who honestly admitted that, in his opinion, evolution was much a theory
    as any other un-proven theory. It cannot be scientifically confirmed so it is
    NOT a fact. Most of the "facts" used to support the evolution theory can
    be explained in other ways. Sorry.
  • Frank Schmidt  - Ray....how sad!
    What planet are you people on? Face the facts and admit that the Bible is NOT
    the word of God. It DOES contain an awful lot of errors and mistakes and
    contradictions. The gospels do not even agree on the day Jesus supposedly died.
    Perhaps you could go and start a banana plantation.
  • Glen  - Frank
    Get beneath me Satan! Your lies are clear as day.

    g
  • Damned by Glen1  - Huhhhhh
    Another excorcism. I was hoping I was the only one.
  • Cynthia  - Origin of Species
    I am on the same planet you are, earth. When you speak of errors, what are you
    talking about? Most people make comments on something they know very little
    about.

    What makes you sad about what Ray says? He is telling the Truth.
  • Robin  - What errrrr orrssss!
    Hey Frank Schmidt,

    What contradictions are you talking about. The 4 gospels are complimentary and
    if they had to conspire then the 4 disciples could have got together and
    fabricated the story so sceptics like you would find it easy to believe.
    Obviously then you'd say 'Look there is no differences in the 4 narrations of
    the gospel.' The fact that Jesus died was MORE important than the day of the
    week and yeah the resurrection that is the foundation of Christian faith which
    is vital.
    Try and focus on the important parts...ok
    Bring on any more errrr orrrs so we can know it.
  • Pete
    Errors? I challenge you to name just ONE.
  • Nick  - Just to name a few
    If you want us to name some errors so be it.
    1.Why in the Old Testament does God condone and even aid in the slaughter of
    anyone that did not believe in him (the flood, Sodom and Gammorah), and yet in
    the New Testament he wants these same sinners to be converted?
    2. If God is perfect, why did he admit that the great flood was a mistake?
    3.If God is all powerful why did he need to rest on the seventh day?
    4. Why do Luke and Matthew give different genealogies of Jesus?
    5. How did Judas die, because we have two entirely different accounts from
    Matthew and Luke?
    6. Why does the Book of Jude quote the Book of Enoch, a book that at the time
    was held as true but has now been shown to be counterfeit?
    7. God created light and darkness the first day and didn't create anything to
    produce them until the fourth?
    8. God created plants before he created the sun.
    9. Leviticus 12:6-7 is one you're gonna need to clarify for me. Wh...
  • Glen  - Pete hope you're still hanging around!
    NUMBER 1: The question does not seem to be phrased right. Primarily God is
    Soverign. He answers to no one. Especially to His created ones. Second, God
    is Holy. That means there is no evil in Him. As a result He cannot tollerate
    sin. Third, He is just. When He determines that there is no way to salvage
    these people it is entirely up to Him to do whatever it is He chooses to do; He
    is soverign. This is the confusing part of the question. The sinners eliminated
    in the flood and Sodom and Gamorah Converted? Their judgement has come and
    gone. How is it then they can be converted? Confused by this part of the
    question!???!?!?
  • Nick  - What about Free will?
    So I am to understand that he gave us free will, which so many die hard
    Christians often argue as the reason for the existence of evil, but then he
    destroys us if we choose to use it?

    About your seventh day answer, no it doesn't say he stopped making stuff, it
    says he rested, and then he apparently went back to his job as overseer.

    Your answer to my fifth question would be good, if they were slightly different
    stories. Furthermore you have to take a stance, either the bible is wholly true
    and God-breathed, or it isn't. You can't say this book is without flaw...except
    for all the flaws.

    Louise, you picked an interesting verse to quote, as it seems to contradict the
    end of days when God will bring an end to all things, does it not?

    As I final note, I would like to say I am indeed not an atheist, only a
    freethinker who is annoyed when people do not think for themselves.
  • Glen  - Free will Yeah, baby!!!
    Nick, free will is limited! It is also over used and stressed. You have the
    ability to use free will in only 2 arena's; 1) to choose God's way or 2) to
    choose the devil's way. There is no other choice or use of free will. Should
    There be I would Choose to use my 'free will' to never perish. As it is that is
    unobtainable.
  • Glen  - The Seventh Day
    I really don't see how this is a problem? So He Stopped making stuff after it
    was all done. And this is a problem How? Very odd question. No idea
    whatsoever how this is a contradiction. I can see how it is an excuse.
  • Glen  - Why do you care how Judas died?
    NUMBER 5: Eye witnesses seeing and telling different stories is not uncommon. So
    you think everything else must be drawn into suspicion as a result? Well, then
    our judicial system must be dicarded if this is the way you are thinking. I also
    hope you don't have more than one friend telling you what happened the night
    before. No doubt they are different in their tellings.
  • Louise  - To answer some of your questions
    I'm not going to answer all of your questions, but I think I can answer a few of
    them for you. You've obviously read the Bible, and that is one thing you've got
    in your favor.



    2. If God is perfect, why did he admit that the great flood was a mistake?

    I know that it might seem to you that he admits having made a mistake when he
    says he won't do it again. But lets read it carefully, Genesis 8:21c "I will
    not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's
    heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing
    living, as I have done. (KJV) I do not see God saying that the flood was a
    mistake, only that he isn't gonna do it again. My answer to your question is HE
    DIDN'T.
  • Professor of History  - bible containing errors...
    Now if the Bible is so faulty as you say it is, Frank, I would think all those
    folks in the past who were SO opposed to it would have let us all in on it by
    now. I mean, the early Jews could have said "There never WAS a Jesus!"
    or "He never DID any miracles!" and the ancient Romans (who were
    exceptional record-keepers) could have done the same. And Muslims, who say they
    know so much more, COULD have pointed out their superiority by pointing out our
    "errors." and don't forget Voltaire, the Hellfire Club, Thomas Paine,
    Robert Ingersolle, et.al...Yet there it stands.



    NOBODY who makes your blanket statement EVER has anything to back it up with
    when I challenge them.
  • Antitheist1  - I'll take that one up, Prof!
    The bible has been demonstrably altered for political means, and is therefore
    not to be trusted as anything more than a dubious story.

    That's pretty blanket, so please; dubunk it, sir!
  • Professor of History  - Antitheist1-I'll take tht one up, Prof!
    Where has it "been demonstrably altered for political means?"



    Just curious where you're going with this...
  • Sheila Miesfeld  - Origin of Species Campaign
    Dear Ray and Kirk:

    I've seen you share the gospel on TV a number of times and really appreciate
    your ministry. I will be praying for you and others envolved in Origin of
    Species Campaign. I believe God will use you mightly and I thank Him for your
    faithfullness in carrying it out. I saw the video, Kirk and it moved me deeply
    and encouraged me to pray and ask God to use me mightly too. God has all His
    bases covered. One more thing is many Christians have adopted methods to win
    people to Christ. You begin right at the core, helping people recognize they
    are sinners and need a Savior. When I share with someone, I find that acceptance
    is key to sharing the Gospel message. Letting someone know the important thing
    is hear what God is saying to us in the scriptures and not that I'm right and
    your're wrong. I've had a conversation with a fella recently and learned
    identifying with where he was at spiritually got his attent...
  • Glen  - Andy's own words
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - First lie
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - Second lie
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - Third Lie
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - a little more
    And finally, morals from Darwinian beginnings? Huh? Are you saying your morals
    are like a dog that smells the butt of another dog due to altruistic reasons?
    Please, don
  • Glen  - Something about what?
    Because they are what God said. Okay now this is another set of posts. So here
    we go. Keep your hands and feet inside at all times. The law is set forth to
    do something very speci-fic! But to understand this thing one must understand
    the job of LAW. So I always ask people what they think a law does. You would
    be surprised at the wide range of answers. Law does only 1 (one) thing; law
    convicts of wrong doing only. The job of law is conviction! Not-hing else!
    Judgement & penalty come after law
  • Glen  - where are my posts?
    Hey guys...where are the rest of the words in my posts?



    g
  • Robin  - andy1968
    Hi andy,

    most people you meet would consider themselves to be very good people beacuse as
    far as they are concerned they are better than the person who is not a rapist or
    a murderer. That is we compare ourselves among ourselves and we are not wise. I
    want to take the liberty and speak on behalf of the creationist that we do not
    consider ourselves to be morally perfect or right. Thats the reason we need a
    Saviour!



    Bible says there is no one who is good none that does righteousness.I am not
    implying that you are not a good person...but Gods standards are different.



    The bible is a historic book and you have to check its validity historically.
    The early Israelites who got the law from Moses testified that it is the word of
    God..so does Jesus in the New testament. Surely you cannot imagine that the
    genrations ranging from Moses' time to this genration have together fabricated
    this story.



    Besi...
  • andy1968  - Robin
    Thanks for the blog Robin. I don't think the story is fabricated however the
    story can change from generation to generation. For example the writers of Luke
    and Matthew insisted that Mary conceived as a virgin (Greek parthenos). The
    Hebrew word alma which parthenos is a translation error means young woman not
    implying virginity. It seems the virgin birth is a mistranslation from the
    Hebrew. This changes things drastically if you consider that the supernatural
    birth of Jesus to a virgin was a mistranslation of young woman to virgin. It
    implies Jesus' birth was natural. I think you have to be careful about the
    Biblical content that's all.



    Andy
  • Robin  - andy1968
    What about the prophesies of the virgin birth in the old testament like the book
    of Isiah which foretold the virgin birth of Jesus Christ?

    Matthew was a book written to the Jews so the lineage was important presenting
    the Messiah as the King of the Jews.

    There are no mistake in translation as people have scoffed all through the ages.


    The number of prophesies about Jesus is fulfilled in Him alone, no other person
    fits it. The four gospels are not contradictory but complementary, four witness
    accounts of the life of the greatest historic figure. Our calender dates are
    based on AD and BC which points to us that there was a person called Jesus, the
    early historians would not use a person who could be a con-man to date our
    timeline; surely you need more proofs..

    Check out other accurately fulfilled prophesies about Alexander the great, the
    destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD as prophesied and the birth of a
  • andy1968  - Robin
    Yes Isaiah 7:14 in the old Testament I think. Although I don't believe and am
    not Christian I admire people who know their Bible Robin because it has always
    been something I could never get into.



    Thanks Andy.
  • dcomfort  - andy1968 - morals
    I'm sorry Andy but you can't say you are "very moral" unless you have an
    absolute standard to compare yourself to. Otherwise how do you tell if someone
    is very "immoral"? It's like having a ruler that has no points of
    measurement. You wouldn't be able to say anthing is a certain length if nothing
    is defined in regard to what length is. Once you have established what an inch
    is, everything can then be compared to it.

    Also, you admit that no one needs a commandment to know that kiling or stealing
    is wrong. I agree, it's called the conscience, and God put it into every human's
    heart. You will be without excuse on the Day that you give account to God for
    your life's actions. When you lie, cheat, steal, lust, you do so knowing that
    it's wrong, even though you deny the Ten Commandments. Especially in light of
    the fact you have decided that you will be the one to decide your own morals. So
    why does your mind still...
  • anddy1968  - morals
    Thanks dcomfort. But why stop at morals if you are going to say that God is the
    ultimate standard. You might as well say that some people are very smelly while
    other people don't smell too much. However we need to compare ourselves to an
    ultimate high standard of smelliness. And that ultimate standard is God - he is
    the universal peerless stinker (Dawkins TGD).

    There is no difference in this arguement.

    Because I don't believe in God I don't accept judgement day. I have not decided
    my own morals I have the same moral values as christians I just don't get them
    from scripture.



    Thanks for your post Andy.
  • Glen  - acceptance
    Andy my friend. Your acceptance is irrelevant. Resitance is futile. You will
    be assimilated. Just kiding. I like the Borg. I think I like them because they
    are so offensive and ugly to boot! If you had the same moral values as
    Chirstians then God would be first on your to do list. As it is God does not
    even exist. So your are a liar! As far as moral standards in Christianity are
    concerned they are there for one reason- to convict us in order to turn us.

    Andy you get the law from the same place everyone else does, namely God. He has
    written they on your heart. Because you rebell from Him is the problem.

    g
  • Glen  - What are your standards then
    I know you've posted later closer to this but what are your standards then? You
    have just lied in the passage above. I have pointed it out in the other post I
    have made. Is lying an okay standard for you by your moral beliefs?

    g

  • andy1968  - morals
    Thanks Glen. I want you to do the assimilating if it comes to that. I don't
    think I've lied. If I have to put a meaning behind it I meant I have the same
    moral values as christians - they get theirs from scripture I don't. That's what
    my post said.



    Andy.
  • andy1968  - morals
    You think murder is immoral - yes so do I. Your a christian, I am not you think
    you get that value from scripture I don't. And that's it - that's all I meant.



    Andy.
  • dcomfort  - morals
    If you followed the Christian morality, you'd be a Christian and believe in God.
    Otherwise, you're picking and choosing what you believe to be right and wrong
    from that view, thus making up your own morality. By the way for something to be
    wrong, there HAS to be a right. For you to say that murder and theft is wrong,
    how DARE you say that someone else has to follow those rules. Only the law-giver
    can do that (or someone speaking on His behalf). Otherwise, you're just forcing
    your views on someone else, which, in this generation is considered intolerant
    (immoral) -- go figure!

  • andy1968  - morals
    I didn't say anyone else has to follow these rules. That is what you are doing.
    You are taking the commandments and saying that is what everybody should believe
    because that's what God said. You are forcing these rules on everyone else. The
    commandments are a basic common sense guide of how to be moral. I think one of
    the commandments says don't covert thy neighbours ox. I don't know anyone who
    owns an ox.

    I am not making my own morality. I said it comes from Darwinian beginnings.
    Think about the smelliness arguement - there is no difference between that and
    morals.



    Andy.
  • andy1068  - morals
    You say 'how DARE you say that someone else has to follow those rules. Only the
    law-giver

    can do that (or someone speaking on His behalf). Otherwise, you're just forcing

    your views on someone else, which, in this generation is considered intolerant

    (immoral) -- go figure!'

    This is coming from a website that supports a 50 page supplement being stapled
    into a scientific text to promote their dogma. Does hypocrisy come under
    intolerant (immoral)? How many atheists have de-faced Bibles and handed them out
    in churches.



    Andy
  • Glen  - What?
    Intollerant is not equal to immoral! Never in a million years my friend. That
    is the problem with today's scociety. They have become twisted into thinking
    they are equal. In fact tollerance does not exist. Tollerance means that you
    are required to accept behaviors that you do not consider moral. So, one must
    tollerate another's immorality. Laws and personal biases place boundaries
    beyond which all of us will not accept. As such, as soon as even one boundary
    is laid, you are intollerant. One cannot expect tollerance when by self
    demonstration one is not tollerant. This is known as hypocracy.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Black and white...
    It's all so very black and white, isn't it? Even your god wasn't good enough to
    set rules that he could follow all the time, no exceptions. 'Thou shall not
    kill.' It's written like that. No provisos, no exceptions, and then this god
    guy goes on a killing rampage lasting from the beginning of the bible to the
    very last book. He once drown the whole planet, according to the story
    (archeology doesn't back it up), killed every firstborn boy in an entire country
    (nothing in the Egyptian records about that, though) and ordered a whole nation
    to be slaughtered, including the livestock (though Jericho was uninhabited at
    the time the bible says it happened). This is known as hypocracy.
  • Robin  - andy1968
    Just a quick reminder- The laws were given by God to Moses on the Mount, the
    finger of God wrote the 10 commandments which we still follow.



    Earlier scribes wrote on parchments not on paper or word documents. Gosh! Sam
    Harris missed that one so do you.

    Archeaologists have not found bibles but things like dead sea scrolls etc. Bible
    was later printed for our generations; earlier it was copied by human copiers
    word for word.

    Took a lot of effort by humans but God divinely preserved His word.



    Repent and belive! so thet you and your household will be saved.
  • andy1968  - Robin
    Thanks Robin. As far as following the 10 commandments are concerned I do not
    lead my life by them but I am still very moral. Throughout the animal kingdom
    alturistic behaviour is paramount because it benefits the individual to be so.
    This has a Darwinian beginnings - in small groups you have many relatives and be
    good to your neighbours benefit your the gene pool.

    I accept what you say about parchments but extraordinary claims about the finger
    of God requires extraordinary evidence.



    Andy.
  • dcomfort  - Andy1968 and morals
    Andy1968 said, "As far as following the 10 commandments are concerned I do
    not lead my life by them but I am still very moral."



    You're very moral compared to what? What is your measuring stick?
  • andy1968  - morals
    Good point. There is no measuring stick and I am not comparing myself to
    anything. I don't think you need the commandments to know that you shouldn't
    kill people or steal their possessions. Treat people as you wish to be treated
    yourself. This has come about by Darwinian processes because all animals show
    alturistic behaviour. Some creatures are so alturistic towards their feeding
    peers to the point where they will act as lookouts for predators, go without
    food themselves and not let anyone take over.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - That is from Jesus buddy!
    Andy...umm buddy you are quoting Jesus when you say treat other as you would
    have them treat you. Careful you may be closer to Christianity than your moral
    laws allow.

    Do you even know what the word, moral, means?

    look it up and get back to me. We might make a truth teller outta you yet.

    g
  • Carl  - Prove it
    "Andy...umm buddy you are quoting Jesus when you say treat other as you
    would have them treat you. Careful you may be closer to Christianity than your
    moral laws allow."

    Can you prove Jesus said this, bearing in mind that the Bible is a poor and
    unreliable source of facts? If you can prove Jesus said this, can you then prove
    that before he said it nobody thought it or practiced it? In the absence of any
    proof can you at least exercise it, because at the moment you are not well using
    the morals you claim you inherently assumed from god.

    Indeed, if you believe you get your morals from an all powerful and loving being
    why are you so venomous? Your vehemence toward people who challenge your stance
    is palpable. One of the things that often confuses me regarding people of faith
    is just how condescending and obnoxious they can be. Does this mean your god is
    condescending and obnoxious?

    Here's a quest...
  • Robin  - Carl- Prove it
    The bible is a book that was written in the same generation of people who
    crucified Jesus and was verifiable. There are so many other non-Christian
    historic evidences and documents that prove these facts.

    Imagine some body writes a book about lets say Micheal Jackson or anyone else
    who is a famous figure and it is a load of lies...would the book ever get past a
    few hands. I mean do you think the 1st century people were so gullible that
    early church fathers and other religious authorities let is go on as a fable
    ...?

    Jesus' sermon on the mount is one of the greatest piece of literature and
    preached by non believers

    Mahatma Gandhi believed the words of Jesus and used it to teach his followers
    even though he was non Christian.
  • Glen  - Carl
    Nice try Carl. You have yet to see what the "Moral" standards the I am
    quoting are for and what they do. You also don't see what Humans are supposed
    to do in light of them. The venom that you are hearing is derived from inside
    of you. Granted that some of my words are exptremely passionate. You ask so
    many irrelevant questions. Ask these questions of you most revered sources.
    Bear in mind that the bible is a perfect source of facts. I lire of the lies
    that are spat and expected to be consumed and revered. I will not. I will call
    them out. Should that be seen by you as venom so be it! Stop lying!You self
    appointed authority to lay as fact a lack of proof is also a lie! If it is
    venomous to call you on it so be it. Don't do It. As fo obnoxious and
    condescending, and you are not? Please, read you own stuff. Your condescention
    comes again froma self appionited authority with NO proof that you actually have
  • Glen  - No stick
    That's so funny. Hey Andy Buddy,so then why have you made yourself the very
    stick you say does not exist?

    It is also interesting that you quote animal behaviors as the stick as well.
    Now I am a little confused.

    g
  • Dawkwin  - Survival of the Fittest
    There is no room for survival of the fittest AND not stealing...animals steal to
    live.

    Do they lie...if they don't get caught stealing they sure will hide the
    evidence.

    Murder?...if they want to not be killed.



    All animals...?



    Guess it's hard to say animals have evolved human like traits.



    Nemo and Bambi are not real.



    Evolution is a great concept.



    Just not proved.



    That's the point.
  • andy1968  - dawkwin
    I didn't say animals have evolved human like traits. I said animals show
    alturistic behaviour.

    Nemo and Bambi are not real but they can be seen in cartoon form. This is to a
    greater extent than the God of the Bible has shown himself.

    Evolution is a great concept and has been proven beyond any doubt. It is a fact
    in the same way that the Earth is round and not flat is a fact.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Man
    Andy, buddy, just when I thought you were getting close. God has shown Hinself
    and continues to do so. That fact that you get bent outta shape is even more
    evidence. Evolution has not been proven as fact beyond the shadow of a doubt.
    That is why people are still debating its merrits.

    g
  • andy1968  - Man
    It's no longer debated in the scientific community it is accepted as fact now.
    It is only debated internally when fossils and new findings are made.

    We would require a massive turn around in the scientific community over many
    disiplines for many of the current theories and facts to be wrong. If evolution
    is not true then God must have created the world to make it look as though
    evolution was true.



    Andy
  • Glen  - So what.
    Andy, so what is the scientists don't debate this any more? It is not true but
    so What? Debate is readly availible. Just look at this page! If one limits
    the debate to just the ones that hold to the values then science is no long
    objective. It has now become biased. Bias is the death of science. In science
    there are those holding to the understanding that this place cannot be unless an
    intelligent designer made it. They are so ostracised from grant money and other
    funding sources by those that hold to the evolution theory that you don't but
    rarely hear about their work. Sad that science actually biases itself to its
    detriment.
  • evo  - Debate in science
    The only debate in science about evolution is about the position of a fossil in
    the tree of life, i.e. what are its descents and predecessors.

    There is no bias in science, that's why you have cars, computers, detergents,
    medicine and so on, because science has investigated the natural world, emited
    theories that explained the reality, tested those theories in practice, looked
    at evidence to see if the theory is correct and ditched *all* the theories that
    were proven wrong.

    The theory of evolution hasn't been contradicted once by real evidence and is
    supported by huge piles of evidence from genetics, fossils, observed reality
    (see the plastic eating bacteria) and many other places.
  • Glen glenschmeisser  - mmmm
    No bias in science. As one can clearly see evolution is still very hotly
    debated. to limit ones debate to only the science field demonstrates the bias
    inherance in science to begin with. Not to mention all the other ones. Too
    many to list here. And most classes teach heavily on the topic becasue it is so
    prevalent. Soory you don't paty atetntion.

    g

    What is "real evidence"? visual? science already knows visual evidence
    is the weakest.

    whatever. cantradiction is everywhere.
  • john  - mans decline
    According to evolution man has risen from slime and climbed to god status but if
    you look at the moral decline of society over the last few thousand years we
    find that it is the opposite we started off created in the image of God and now
    our society is so morally corrupt it is on the brink of collapse it proves that
    Gods account in the bible is absolutely correct mankind is not on the rise we
    are declining at a rapid rate.

    Keep up the good work Ray Comfort, evolution is a religion based on the worship
    of mankind and has been mortally wounded.

    Regards john.



  • Dan  - Man's Decline>
    So you're saying that the world was better when slavery was common practice?
    When the standard of living was so poor that many people never lived past 50?



    You prefer slavery and a short life-span to the first-world countries of today
    where people can live well past 80, where all people are considered equal, and
    freedom of speech is a right?
  • Philothea  -  it is a question of FAITH for Atheist and Christi




    Thanks for your responses Andy --

    I would like to present my view to you and others who might be interested

    I believe in scientific evidence but always leave room for a new discovery later
    that might disprove the original theory--if I am not mistaken this has happened
    in certain areas in mathematics and science - and being a Christian I believe
    that sooner or later science and the BIBLE- WILL- move closer and closer
    together. I believe this because I believe the Bible is the living word of God
    which is TRUTH ....having said that and don't shoot me down yet :) I see no
    problem with the fact that the universe began with a Big Bang if that is what
    scientists see the evidence leading to. The big question is who or what started
    the bang? - I don't believe THINKING Atheists believe that there was nothing
    and nothing made everything , since that is irrational ( am I wrong ?) I believe
    thinking Atheists belie...
  • Glen  - convergance
    Philo,

    Hey neet post. I think your right in saying that science will eventually come
    into complete agreement with God and the word. Science is the observation of
    the creation. And God has kept a lot of people quite busy trying to figure it
    out. Humans need to be busy. I also see no trouble with a start to the
    universe. And agree with your position about who initiated it. That is the
    major problem in science right now. It is dominated by people that don't
    believe there is a God. That is an immidiate bias from the start.
  • andy1968  - Philothea
    The big question is who or what started

    the bang? Absolutely - nobody knows. But when I say nobody knows that means
    everybody, including theologians. Scienists at least admit they don't know, but
    religiousness seams to think it can get away with making the extraordinary claim
    that there is a designer with no evidence. Like I said above you can replace God
    with the IPU or FSM and still be in the same position. Interesting comments
    about science and bible moving closer Ithink they are drifting apart. And you
    said 'always leave room for a new discovery later that might disprove the
    original theory'. Yes good comment that is what science does continually.



    Thanks for your post Andy.
  • Glen
    Again you claim no evidence while there is a plethora of it. This replacing of
    letters argument is silly. You cannot clain that there is no designer of you.
    You were manufactured from one sperm and one egg joining forces. Before hand
    you did not exist. The designer is therefore your parents, right? Did your
    parents then give you that moral code you are using too? Was it is the sprem or
    the egg? or Both? Did you just pick it up from the streets? Or do you know
    inside of you deep inside that this or that is good or bad? And what is your
    purpose to exist?

    g
  • Evangelist Marvin Sewell  - God is Supreme
    Get a grip you insolent atheists. God is real, he created us all and he loves us
    all even if YOU don't believe in him. You just dont want to follow God because
    you do not want to follow a set of simple rules. The Bible says the soul that
    sins it shall surely die, and if you don't repent and trust in Christ you will
    burn... In...HELL!!!!!!



    Any comments: Contact me at: damienkonstantin@yahoo.com
  • Philothea  - As Christian also need Andy's question answered


    Hi I am a Christian and believe that the Universe was Created by an awesome
    intelligence far beyond anything we could ever comprehend BUT I am also stumped
    by the question brought up by Andy and not yet answered-and that is if you say
    "NOTHING CREATED EVERYTHING" IS WRONG!!! what do you say to an atheist
    who says : as the Christian believes GOD ALWAYS EXISTED we believe that

    MATTER ALWAYS EXISTED and hence the evolution process had the substance
    necessary for it to begin??





    keep up the good work

    regards Philothea



  • andy1968  - Creation
    Scientists do not know what happened before the big bang - there is no real
    astronomical or cosmological explanation what made the universe come into being.
    However saying that God did it equally explains absolutely nothing either. You
    might as well say the flying spagetti monster or the invisible pink unicorn (IPU
    has a website of its own) created the universe.

    Taking Genesis chapter 1 literally and saying 'there was nothing and when God
    spoke there was everything' (over 6 days) is exactly what Ray is critising
    science for - creating everything from nothing. You are then left with the even
    bigger problem of endless regression in having to explain a God. And which God -
    Allah?
  • andy1968  - Creation
    Philothea, all matter in the universe followed from the big bang 75% hydrogen
    (H), 25% helium (He) and small amounts of other substances very simple really -
    not complex, H and He are the 2 most simplest elements and comprise almost the
    entire universe. The elements to start evolution in the first place were
    synthesized in the insides of hot stars. Gravitational collapse of H + He clouds
    forms stars. We can see this happening in nebulae. Nucleosynthesis in a star's
    core converts H into He. When the star uses the H fuel it starts to converts He
    into carbon, nitrogen and oxygen + heavier metals. When the star blows itself up
    these heavier elements form the Sun and Earth. We are the result of a previous
    supernova. Not only that because of the chemical signature left from this
    supernova we can determine that the star was a Wolf-Rayet star. As Carl Sagan
    said 'we are star stuff'.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - answer
    Philothea,

    As a Chiristian if this question has rattled you, the foundation you stand on is
    not firm. Shore it up sister. For God says He created these things. Before He
    created them they flat out did not exist. For the athiest I have no other
    answer. Our minds don't allow us to go that far. By this I mean Human beings.
    We can imagine all sorts of stuff but to imagine matter as it currently is
    having existed with out beginning is a stretch even for science. That thought
    is eternity. Science shys away from these religious terms. Even then where is
    the natural selection to form a peptide bond? Or a strand of DNA that actualls
    codes something? And who wrote the code?
  • Glen  - Careful Philo
    Be care the seeds of the pharacee's Philothea. Time to check your foundation.
    The one thing the enemy wants is to get you to question God. Before matter
    existed God existed. It is that simple. Andy however wants you to be misled.
    His words are like yeast in bread. Be careful. Jesus of Nazareth is the One
    present when all this was spoken into being. He came here and even told us
    about His presence At The Beginning. One more thing about this...if you don't
    believe God can create everything you see is 6 of our days he is not big enough.
    The God of the bible is big enough. He is soverign and powerful. Power, not
    the way humans understand it. When God speaks it happens. No one else need be
    involved.
  • Glen  - scientists
    Andy is right by saying scientists don't know what happened before the big bang.
    But God does and he has told us. Now since stars are always forming from these
    condesations why has one never been observed? Many putative explosions have
    been observed but not one condesation into a full flegged star has been seen. I
    fing that curious. Andy continually asks the question Which god? There is only
    one. He has come and He has set us free in a unique way. Not to be found in
    any of the humanistic religions. Philothea, since you claim to be Christian
    bu8t your armor on and move beyond worldly thinking and into heavenly thnking.
    This is what is known as Spiritually mature. I have no doubt that Andy will
    attack with teeth bared. Just pay attention to the spirit he brings.



    g
  • Jake  - I find this terribly amusing
    I know Ray would just love to blame this brouhaha on atheists terrified of this
    book, but the fact is that the backlash is not from atheists, but from all
    intelligent, informed people.

    Underhanded tactics like this are the most dishonest, intellectually bankrupt
    means of pushing an agenda and Ray deserves every ounce of ire he receives as a
    result of it. As many have already suggested, I'd ask Rays supporters consider
    the backlash if someone were to include an equally smarmy, propagandist forward
    in copies of the bible and attempted to hand them out at religious gatherings.
    Would you consider that a fair and honest way of debating the merits of
    religion?

    If your ideas can't stand up the the same intellectual scrutiny as other
    scientific theories, then they probably have no merit. If this is the kind of
    foolishness you're forced to resort to in order to win support, then you deserve
    none.

    Congrat...
  • Glen  - Wow
    Interesting how you have placed the religious in a category of unintelligent.
    The under-handedness is yours not Ray's. Intellectually bankrupt people are
    spouting off just like you all the time. PLacing one group beneath everyone
    else for a random bogus reason is one of the more innane ones. This time it is
    that we believe in God. The only backlash is from people that hold Darwin's
    book about God. This is idol worship. AS for your thoery of adding a forward
    to the bible...I was unaware that Darwin's book is a religious text. Doing what
    you intend to do would place it in the same category. Is that what you really
    want?\

    g

  • Robin  - Bravo Jake!!
    You are so amusing Jake, really all this does is reveal your ignorance.



    Imagine comparing a book that is more than 1500 years of old, compiled by more
    than 40 authors which has stood the test of time and scoffers for centuries with
    a theory by some one who coined it 150 years ago.



    Please do the effort and include a 50 pg introduction in the Bible if you can
    find enough arguments. You will help fulfill the words of Jesus' prophesy that
    "This gospel will be preached in all the nation"



    But I would like to caution you about what God says about adding to this book
    anything that -the deadly plagues mentioned in the bible will come on you...go
    ahead take the jump!



    Remember you were offered the parachute but you chose the painting of Mona
    Lisa...you must think you are invincible....
  • Anonymous
    "Imagine comparing a book that is more than 1500 years of old, compiled by
    more

    than 40 authors which has stood the test of time"



    Do you never wonder why it has stood the test of time - children are easy to
    brainwash so the cycle continues. This is the reason religion is being gradually
    removed from school curriculums and government.



    Have you ever stopped to consider what happens to a book (allegedly of truth)
    that is edited by forty different people over a few hundred years...?



    Have you ever considered how many people could actually read and write 1500
    years ago to verify what was written...?



    Have you heard of the children's game Chinese Whispers...?



    And your empty threats are beyond childish - if that is your only option, to
    threaten, it is you who are lost.
  • Glen  - glad...part 2
    But the stages of development are very, very interesting. Indeed the apparent
    stages of "evolution" appear to be moving through the embryonic stages
    of development. Though when you take a much closer look at the process one
    quickly see that the organism has a very hihgly developed and tightly controlled
    segnemtation process designed to manufacture very specific sections of the
    organism. It really isn't a walk through "evolution" but rather a walk
    through the construction of the individual. Time is everything too. Some genes
    stay turned on longer than others etc. Influence time or gene product and you
    don't get a new species of organism you get a dead one. Eliminate the
    "higher" genes "placed there by evolution to make antother
    organism" you don't get the lower critter you get a dead one. So on and so
    forth...hear the violin?
  • Glen  - ?
    Andy, you used an arguemnt about chance to demonstrate that something can
    happen by chance and that it did not happen by chance? I think I am confused by
    the chance?

    g



    Think I'll stay away from dice.
  • Anonymous  - University List
    Is there a list of the universities somewhere? I'd like to know if SDSU and UCSD
    will be included. Thanks
  • Lydia J Vester  - For all you who don't believe
    Here's a question? Do you believe that fish can fly?
    You probably said immediately, an amateur and an uneducated, "No".
    On a high horse you go. Well here's a better question? Have you ever seen a fish
    fly.
    Had you asked me about 2 months ago I would have thought immediately that you
    were seriously crazy, stupid, or maybe a trickster.
    Well a month and a half ago my husband and I took our honeymoon in Cozomel,
    Mexico. On a boat ride, I saw the most random, unbelievable sight. That's right,
    a flying fish. Though they only get about 2 feet tops out of the water, they
    soar for about 5 seconds. Look it up, YOUTUBE the action of this phenomenon.

    So here's your lesson of the day.
    1. Do you believe that fish can fly?
    Just because you mentally have been brainwashed to not believe that something
    more intelligent than you is keeping your heart beat as we speak, doesn't change
    the FACT that "In the beginn...
  • Glen  - complexity
    I would like to address this complexity arguement a bit. You are a bit blind
    here. Tell me how can a system generate the very product it uses to make the
    product? Can you? The Krebs cycle along with glycolysis and electron transport
    is the wonder system our bodies use to generate the NRG needed to continue
    living. Yet it requires the very product it makes in order to function. Since
    you are a great and wonderful mind with powerful mathematics skills please
    calculate for me the probability the any system can do that on its own.

    Then tell me which of these proteins evolved first?

    g
  • andy1968  - Complexity
    Unfamiliar with the Krebs cycle Glen. Fats, carbs proteins can be used to
    generate the energy. Thr 1st product of the krebs cycle is citric acid. This
    reminded me of Richard Dawkins new book TGSOE, where he describes 45,000 lab
    generations of Ecoli carried out over 20 years by Rchard Lenski at the
    University of Michigan. The Ecoli were limited in their supply of glucose yet
    amazingly one batch 'evolved' (dare I mention the E word) to metabolise citric
    acid which was also in the flasks of Ecoli. The result was highly improbable
    according to Lenski but given enough time (generations) evolution naturally
    selected the mutation that metabolized citric acid. Google Lenski.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - HuH?
    You mean bacteria still being bacteria are able to eat a carbon based molecule.
    Cool! What genious figured this out?



    Citric acid is not the product of the Krebs cycle, glycolysis or electron
    transport. ATP is. Also CO2. All thiose fun little things you listed to
    generate NRG not only go into the cycle but are abler to come out of it. It is
    so impressively complex that you would be very hard pressed to say randomchance
    produced such a highly complex cycle. Aside from the fact that it uses the very
    produce it makes; namely ATP. Without ATP it cannot make ATP.



    g
  • Antitheist1  - So...you wouldn't be shocked at all...
    ...if we humans developed the ability to metabolize quack grass (or, honestly
    metablolize much of anything other than the bacteria we mainly eat after they've
    done the metabloizing for us)? E.Coli cannot metabolize citric acid unless it
    undergoes two mutations, which only happens if THINGS EVOLVE.



    And I know how educated you are on the subject, G-man. What was seen in the
    experiment was a species developing an ability it previously did not have.
  • andy1968  - Complexity
    I am a chemist and I don't know much about the Krebs cycle, a chemical process -
    useless. Not a great and wonderful mind also as my maths skills are poor, but
    the dice throwing saga was to demonstrate that evolution has not occured by
    chance.



    Thanks Andy.
  • william walters  - oh wow
    so i just stumbled across this site after hearing about Kirk and rays plan with
    the good book (i.e. the origin of species) and i had know idea that they had so
    many fans! i honestly thought allot of their acts were comedy skits! did you see
    that Youtube video with the banana? hilarious! but i digress, what i find more
    curious would be their constant insistence that the theroy of evolution has
    never been proven. i mean why else would you deface a scientifically verified
    book with your own 50 page adaptation, then for comic relief?
  • Robin Samuel  -  Not sitting on a fence
    Hi Mike,



    If you want to read the bible pls go to Genesis(1st book of the bible) and it
    says clearly 'In the beginning GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth...' so what
    is all the confusion about reading it.



    If you read a book you either believe it or not. How else is the bible suppose
    to prove what it says. To know the bible is true you have to look to the bible.

    Read Rays articles on builder - building; painter - painting and other such
    similar ones if you need to understand it better.Other resources avaialble to
    make an atheists think..



    If you still do not beleive then you are obviously from the NOTHING created
    EVERYTHING camp. Thats fine !
  • Mike  - Where's the Faith
    "NOTHING created EVERYTHING camp."

    That statement shows a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution. No biologist
    believes that, clearly something had to be there to evolve. Continued
    mis-statements of evolutionary theory won't help prove God.



    To know the truth in the Bible one needs to have faith. Where is faith in all
    these discussions strings? There doesn't seem to be many demonstrations of
    faith in these discussions.



    Mike
  • Robin  - where is the faith
    Mike.

    As you have suggested ' clearly something had to be there to evolve'

    Without the basic components aleady present how did evolution take place?



    I mean man with all the intelligence and the genius he claims to be; cannot
    create anything from scratch (i.e. zilch) by itself.



    We have not even ventured into the faith realm here as it is based on Scientific
    explanation.



    You guys seem to have more faith than me! I'd say.. because to belive in
    Evolution you have to have super de-duper faith.
  • Robin Samuel  - Still few guys on the fence...
    To Karl Buckland



    So do you give the Pope's word or his metaphorical thinking more value than the
    word of God.

    If God says it was in 6 days thats it.

    As for evolution if the bible says God used evolution then beleive it....mine
    does'nt.



    Jesus said rightly..."In vain do you teach men to follow traditions making
    the word of God of no effect..."

  • andy1968  - Evolution and Chance
    There is no film evidence of course for evolution however DNA provides a trace
    back in time to common ancestors - such as between humans and chimps.

    Evolution does not happen by chance like Kirk and Ray keep saying it does. The
    chances of throwing my 100 digit number are impossible despite it having
    happened the first time around. Evolution happened the first time around and the
    evidence for it is huge. Different circumstances or temperatures would have
    produced different organisms butthat's not the way it happened; in the same way
    as I would have had a different 100 digit number if I had shook the dice for
    longer or dropped them from a different height.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - DNA
    Not so fast Andy po bandy! Since all things evolved from single celled
    organisms then all the DNA should be complementary in an advancing evolving
    fassion. Of course giving for non-lethal mutations. So then I should be able
    to extract from me a DNA sequence from MY genome that carries the DNA from the
    stepwise evolutionary process from single cell to comlpex cell fitting evey step
    along the way. Please also not that DNA'S gets progessively more detailed and
    complex as it adds on to the next evolutionary step. So where did the First
    Chromosome in the tightly packed and organized fassion that I see in MY genome
    come from?
  • andy1968  - DNA
    You say 'So then I should be able

    to extract from me a DNA sequence from MY genome that carries the DNA from the

    stepwise evolutionary process from single cell to comlpex cell fitting evey
    step

    along the way'.



    Glen, it does! DNA shows us who are common ancestors were through fish,
    amphibians, reptiles, shrews, chimps... Not only chemical evidence with DNA but
    physical evidence as well as in the embryonic stage of life. Embryology shows us
    that we the creatures mentioned above pass through an embryo stage where they
    are practically identical.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - Glad you went there
    Andy I gotta say I think I have been approaching you with the wrong attidute.
    It is Contempt. Please forgive for that. I really tire of these continual
    debates that lead no where. The embryonic developemental process is a very
    interesting event. The DNA does not built as you have claimed it does here. No
    amount of me saying that will change your mind so I am just gonna slide. It
    really no longer matters to me.
  • andy1968  - Evolution and Chance
    Let's suppose I set up a camera and film myself throwing 2 dice 50 times to
    generate a 100 digit long number. Then I give a group of people 2 dice to see if
    they can throw this number using without shoeing them the film. They can sit
    there all night throwing the dice but if they throw the dice once every second
    there will not enough time in billions of years to repeat my earlier feat. If I
    show them the film they will say 'oh right you have already recorded yourself
    throwing the dice and that was the number you generated'. This is what
    creationists are misunderstanding with evolution. They are saying evolution
    cannot be true because the chances of it happening are impossible, without
    realising that evolution has already happened like my 100 digit number.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - chance
    HuH? you men evolution happened only once? Never agian to occur? So which
    critter got zapped? Then what about all the rest? You see your arugument is
    rediculous because evolution is thoerized to be an on going number 100. And you
    are saying that we are stuck in the 100? That is really outta sight!
    "cause evolution is saying that you roll that number 100 every single time.
    try again charlie. You aint no where near right!
  • andy1968  - chance
    You need to read the arguement again because you have missed the point of it.
    Yes the number 100 is ongoing but even 100 digits is impossible to repeat. The
    arguement is describing ongoing evolution. You are talking about the probability
    of how it all got started in the first place. The conditions to get evolution
    started happened only once in the first place, yes, I agree with that because it
    is highly improbable. However, you do have an enormous amount of time so the
    chances are favourable. Once started the rest is not improbable turkeys, fish,
    monkeys don't just appear by chance. All creationists miss the point of
    probability to start evolution and during the evolutionary process.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Yes
    Keep talking Andy you are almost there. The impossible happened. I heard you
    say that the immpossible happened. Even by your standards the impossible
    happened. Since it is impossible it cannot happen by chance. Energy must be
    exerted in order to accomplish it. Somethng must happen in order for the
    obviously impossible to become possible. You attribute it to "an enormous
    amout of time". I'm certain that an infinite amout of time will not allow
    the impossible to become possible. It is still impossible.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Andy; small flaw...
    While I do enjoy reading your posts Andy, I just had to bring a small error to
    you attention; We do not know how, or where, or how many times life appeared.
    Grudgingly, I must admit we can't prove that the first life here wasn't seeded
    somehow (though, due to the fact that we know life exists, I find alien
    engineering quite a bit more probable than god's inflatable mud-pies). What we
    know is that life started AT LEAST once, in microbial form, around 4.4 billion
    years ago (give or take the 1% error in radioactive-decay dating). We must
    stick to the facts, and call speculation speculation when we do it.
  • Darin's Angry  - You still don't get it
    Where did the dice come from?
  • J.Romeo  - thanks
    thanks glenn
  • Glen  - Credance
    "I wouldn't mind if his word was written in the stars this would give it
    more credance."



    Jesus says:



    31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching,
    you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will
    set you free."
  • Henry  - drivel
    from that I gather you read the first sentence and then stopped? It doesn't
    bother you at all that when Comfort claims evolutionary theory should expect to
    find a crockoduck he is entirely wrong? The writer is not even asking you to
    accept evolution, but to at least understand what it's SUPPOSED to be. Isn't it
    important to know what claims you're refuting? It doesn't bother you that he is
    PROVABLY wrong about the "female problem". And by provable, again, I
    don't mean that you need to accept evolution, only that Comfort's interpretation
    of what evolution is SUPPOSED to mean is entirely false. Doesn't that matter?
  • Henry  - know your topic
    wrong is wrong whatever you decide you prefer to believe:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-20682-Boston-Underground
    -Examiner~y2009m10d16-Vandalizing-Darwin-the-Kirk- Cameron-Ray-Comfort-campaign
  • Glen  - ?
    Drivel? Ray's stuff is drivel? Wow! I think your are right about one
    thing...This guy in the site you have provided is wrong! Bseides, there is no
    vandalism of the work. Just a forward. How insecure do you have be. Saad.
    reaaaallly sad.
  • Mark
    Amazing.



    Ray has succeeded in leading large numbers of atheists to the Word of God. They
    seem to be following Ray--wherever he goes. Perhaps some will emerge from the
    darkness and see the Light...



    All you are is a weak, mortal, fallible, imperfect human being, Mr. Atheist.
    I'm not impressed. Nor should anyone else be. You will die someday, and if so,
    I suggest you be prepared.











  • Damned by Glen1  - Couldn't agree more!
    I am a human, and I will die! And I won't waste a minute of this precious,
    precious time that I have trying to score points for an afterlife that, even if
    it does exist, could be the after life promised by ANY religion, or nothing like
    any of them! I hear Valhalla's nice this time of year!
  • Connor R.  - There is a God
    There's some great stuff here, it's nice that we have apologists willing to
    actually do something. For those who say there isn't a God, check out my blog,
    www.debunkedevil.blogspot.com

    Evilbible.com did an article about why God couldn't exist, and I proved it
    wrong. I'm 16, that should tell you a little about how hard it would be for Ray
    lol.
  • Jason  - Uh, what?
    You didn't debunk a thing. You simply displayed how warped of a view of moral
    behavior one must have to regard the bible as true. Killing someone because they
    do not love you enough is unethical, regardless of your position in the
    universe. He killed EVERYONE ON EARTH BUT ONE FAMILY for that very reason.

    I see that you feel pretty clever about that blog, as perhaps you should. It's
    decently written, and thorough. However, to anyone who is not psychotic, it
    doesn't justify God's (thankfully fictional) repeated mass murders.
  • Robin  - Jason-why the hatred?


    You seemed to be a bit misinformed to say that God killed the whole earth
    because they did not love him: not true but a LIE!



    God judged the earth and will do it again but not for lack of love but because
    of sin.

    God is holy and by nature must judge sin. The early world was pretty much like
    ours today full of immorality, lust, perversion...only the bloodline of Noah was
    found to be pure so God saved them in the ark.

    Guess what it must have been like this- Noah preaching to the world of
    rigtheousness and people mocking and scoffing till the day the Lord sent rain on
    the earth.



    Bible says God demonstrates his love for us in that while we were yet sinners
    Christ died for us. If you repent and believe the gospel you have forgiveness,
    freedom from all your sins.



    Be rest assured God will judge sin again and if there is no blood to cover you
    the judgement will NOT passover you, C'mon man!...
  • Glen  - AMEN
    Good work Robin!
  • Damned by Glen1  - Calling a spade a spade...
    Genocide is genocide, and one does not commit genocide out of love. And an
    omnipotent being does not HAVE to do anything! And an omnipotent being who
    created the sin in the first place, knowing that the sin would happen, has only
    himself to blame.



    What you have described is rather like creating video game characters that act
    as they are programmed, then blaming them for carrying out the program. Us
    fallible humans often destroy our computer programs for not working, and even
    blame the program, not ourselves. If god's like that, there's no perfection to
    be found in him at all.
  • kally  - prayin for you:)
    You guys(Kirk & Ray)are very bold, you will truly have your reward in heaven:).
    Grace & peace to you both, I'll keep your ministry in my prayers:). >
    _____________________

    One doesn't want to hear the Gospel because of his or her pride, because the
    Gospel points out that we haven't done things right. People don't like to hear
    that. I didn't when I was an unbeliever. He humbled me..and it took almost for
    me to die to come to Him. Thanks to His mercy, I am still alive today and was
    delivered from my sin of eating disorders. I pray others reading and glimpsing
    around on this site that don't know Him, ask to know Him..and "you will know
    the Truth, and the Truth will set you free."

    "He who is freed by the Son is free indeed."
    John 8:36

    Much love to everyone on here, atheist and christian:).
  • Full Amor of God  - Jesus is who I follow
    To Kelly - not an atheist but still offended. Your fight is not with Ray and
    Kirk. They are giving you a chance to know the truth. A smart person would at
    least investigate both sides of the spectrum before making a determination of
    who is rigth and who is wrong. Why would you get offended at what Kirk or Ray is
    saying when they are trying to share the truth of the Gospel. If you pick up a
    bible and begin to read you to will be given the information they are trying to
    share. How could you argue based on just feelings alone. The feeling of being
    offend. Many people get offend by comments but that doesn't change the truth of
    the comment. Perhaps you should not be so easily offended and find out THE TRUTH
    first. It may save your life. Your argument is with God the father, Jesus the
    son and his holy counsel. You will be judged one day based on all you said. Read
    God's word first and see if there is a creator of you who wants you to...
  • Mike  - When will the campaign...
    be at Georgia Tech? I would very much like to read this copy of Origin of
    Species.
  • Kelly  - Not an atheist, still offended
    I just watched Kirk Camerons video message about Origin in Schools. I am neither
    Christian or Atheist, and I was still deeply offended by the video.



    The sentance which I took greatest offense to was when he said, and I quote,
    "All we want to do is to present the opposing AND CORRECT view rather than
    being censored."



    How dare you point your finger at the world and grow angry at them for saying
    they believe evolution is correct, then preach that people should take both
    sides into account and choose for themselves, then have the AUDACITY to
    procalaim that YOU ARE CORRECT, making everyone else wrong. You say people
    should have the choice but then you take the choice away from them by declaring
    yourself right.
  • Glen  - Audacity
    Is it audacious then for your teachers to tell you the 2+2=4? Or that a word is
    spelled this way or that? Is it audacious for them to tell you that is unlawful
    to steal? Is it audacious for them to tell you that Hitler was incorrect?

    Kirk made a claim right? No! God made the claim and Kirk only repeated it for
    you to hear in school. Your argument is with God not Kirk or Ray or me for that
    matter.

    Well one fella asks which religion is the right one. Christianity shows us
    something unique in all the religious observances; namely the cross. It is the
    only religion that witnesses to God paving the way to Himself for us by Him. All
    others pave the way by our works. They are only bribes given to a righteous
    judge that will not be accepted because they are an insult.
  • andy1968  - Glen - Audacity
    Really Glen think about the insanity of the situation. You claim there is a God
    who can create a Universe and all things in it - stars, planets, galaxies and
    life; then this God has to rely on Kirk and Ray and other people to relay the
    message. You may argue that God's word is written in the Bible but this God
    still had to wait for humans to invent paper before He could write his word
    down. Is he incapable of anything without the help of people? I wouldn't mind if
    his word was written in the stars this would give it more credance. Sam Harris
    said: 'there is not one single word in the Bible that could not have been
    written by anybody living in the iron age'.

    As far as the cross is concerned making Christianity unique, you need to be
    aware that you are worshipping a device used to torture people to death, which
    is a bit sinister for me.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - Andy
    I LOVE YOU BUDDY. Opening up this can is gonna be fun!

    God does not require humans for anything. However, he knows that we must learn
    by experience. He also knows that we require a relationship with Him. THis is
    why men work along side God to speak to other men. You see there is one more
    thing We require...each other. So God uses us to teach each other while in
    relation to Him. His design. As for the cross...i could not agree with you more!
    The vileness of men captured By God to demonstrate our own nature. Men designed
    this! Men actuated this! Men not God! Time to wake up buddy. Sleep no more.
    When I look at the vileness of death on the cross I see just how bad rebellion
    from God is. You just blame Him for it.
  • Glen  - more worms
    Insanity... nice. The intellectually sound must rely on insulting the person to
    lower them to the correct level in order to speak to them. I find it facinating
    and complementary that you think so highly of me. What you and you kind fail
    repeated ly to see is God does not leave all of the teaching to men. It is
    written all over creation. That's right! Creation. He made it and it speaks
    of Him without everr sleeping. And all you can do is complain about me being
    insane for see it! Wow. Who is Sam Harris And why should I care? Since he is
    not much more that some iron age scribbings in your post I'll simply ignor His
    very existance. Besides what does he have to say that could not have been said
    in the iron age? Oh yes...I do not worship the cross. I worship God. You know
    the one that allowed men to kill the flesh He took on by being nailed to it.
    Jesus. The cross is just a remembrance of His work and a testament to i...
  • Glen  - credance
    No andy you'd give it no more credence than you do now. God's word is alive. I
    know you cannot comprhend that. I am not the one with the power to show you
    that either. I can only tell you about it.

    Your credence is self derived. If you in all your glory see fit to do so then
    you yeild to credit something. Remember your glory is nothing but dust and
    ashes and you are going to return to it. Since all is derived in self and self
    is going to return to dust so are all your derivations.Jesus has been remembered
    from the beginning.

  • andy1968  - Glen
    Thanks Glen. Of course you are not insane but the situation generated by
    religion is insane. An all powerful God like the one touted by religions would
    find it very easy to reveal himself but makes such hard work of this by
    remaining invisible. There is still not enough evidence there to convince me of
    a God. I was quoting Sam Harris because that sentence shows that the Bible was
    written by people who did not have the knowledge to include anything
    revolutionary such as: how stars form, DNA, electricity, atomic theory - all the
    things you would expect a God to know about.
  • andy1968  - Glen
    As far as creation is concerned all that we see around us is not proof that
    there is a God. What Darwin explains in his book, which Ray has added his 50
    page supplement, is that complexity can form by natural processes. Every
    religious person who I have heard speak about the subject completely
    misunderstands how evolution by natural selection works. Ray Comfort's interview
    with the Robertson fellow on this site is full of falsehoods about Darwin and
    the evoultionary theory. I think most religious people have the problem with
    macroevolution more than anything because we are simply not here long enough to
    see it happen, but that does not mean that it hasn't occured - evidence is
    extensive.



    Andy.
  • andy1968  - Glen
    Glen, your last paragraph on 'credance' does not make sense to me.

    The phrase that made me atheistic more than anything was when I read: 'God was
    created by man in the image of himself and not the other way around'. This put
    all religions into perspective for me as being used by men as a means to
    control. Everyone says God's word is in the Bible, however this book was still
    written by people.

    You're right that I cannot comprehend that God's word is alive. I was brought up
    in a school that took us to church every now and then, but I could not accept
    the scriptures as being real. Perhaps it is the way we are indoctrinated as
    children that makes us believe; I didn't have religon rammed down my throat.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Andy1968
    It has nothing to do with indoctrination Andy. Nothing at all. soory you don't
    comprehend. I am also sorry that you are not able to comprehend that everything
    you see DOES witness to the existance of God. And Sammy was used to demonstrate
    anyone can use the iroon age arguement to dismiss anything or anyone. Sorry
    again in your advanced intellect you were unable to see that. Man brother,
    there is a lot you don't see. I sure hope you are not a scientist. You'd miss
    the discovery right beneath your eyes. You are right about the wickedness of
    men using religion to control. God did not send that to us nor does he insist
    upon controling us to beleive. Either we do or we don't. Everyone will reap a
    reward for what he/she believes.
  • Glen  - Andy
    On a more loving note...what in the world do you beleive about God? You state
    you went to a school that took you to church.

    Also what does one have to do to get you to see that the word is real and
    alive?

    Agian it has zero to do with indoctrination. It does have to do with Proof,
    though.

    I'd love to know more.



    g
  • andy1968  - Proof
    It would take evidence and very good evidence.

    Do you think I want eternal life to be sat next to Jesus, a loving God and all
    family and friends living happily forever more?

    Of course I do! Sounds great! Unfortunately the biblical scriptures of all the
    religions don't convince me of this. The above is about what I want but the
    universe is not about what I want or what anybody wants. Evidence shows the
    universe is cold and indifferent. We can be wiped out at some point (asteroids,
    comets) and it just wouldn't matter. I find this more awe inspiring that having
    a God in place. I place Gods, Faries, astrology, tarot cards, all superstitions,
    supernaturals and pseudosciences in the same pot - the one waiting for more
    convincing evidence. How about you?



    Thanks Andy.
  • andy1968  - Proof
    It does have to do with proof, however, proof and faith are opposed. you have to
    have one or the other.



    I just love science. Science is not based on faith you can go and check the
    evidence for yourself. Science self-checks itself through peer review. Google
    'Michael Shermer's balony detection kit' and apply it to something you don't
    believe in to see where I am coming from. I may not want to be or think of
    myself as an evolved ape. Unfortunately I have no choice because this is a fact.
    Doesn't matter what people want.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Soo ever so close
    Andy, you are so close my friend. So very close. I have asked you a very
    specific question. What evidence do you require to accept that God exists? I
    am actually glad you are asking these questions though. One of the really cool
    thing Jesus does is give us a glimps into our future. One of the unbeliev-abley
    cool prophcies that has come to pass, before I was born any way, is the nation
    of Israel being reborn. She has also made the desert bloom. More prophecy.
    Jesus told us that Jeruslaem would be flattened and it was. It is now back.
    And a cup of trembling for anyone that touches her.
  • Alexander James Hofstetter  - Alexander - Incompetence
    Is it audacious then for your priests to tell you that the earth is flat? Or
    that a woman is inferior to a man? Is it audacious for them to tell you that is
    heresy to speak of anything not told to you by the church? Is it audacious for
    them to tell you that the Crusades were incorrect?

    Kelly made a claim right? No! The people of the world made the claim, and she is
    merely expressing it. Your argument is with All of the world, not with Kelly, or
    even me for that
    matter.

    Well someone asks which ideology is the right one. Christianity shows us
    something unique in all the religious observances; an air of superiority. It is
    the
    only religion that has the audacity to say its God came to earth to show the
    way. All other ideologies either respect their god and do not try to put
    themselves on their god's level, or simply do not have a god to slander.
    Christianity is nothing more than a pandering to the human de...
  • Lisa  - Why so offended?
    So what is the problem Kelly? Are you not strong in your convictions of what you
    believe? Why does someone who has conviction in his own belief, while inviting
    you to decide for yourself, affront you? It seems you are offended by the
    implication that you might be wrong. I am a Christian and I do believe in
    intelligent design. I understand there are many who feel that my beliefs are
    WRONG, but I accept that. As a Christian, I must love them because the same
    architect that created me created them. Further, I believe that we have been
    made in His image. Is it not more open minded to listen to both sides? Everyone
    has been given free will to believe as he or she chooses. Do you think that
    individuals should have the intelligence to know what they believe and why they
    believe it?
  • openmindedatheist
    Frankly I'm not going to worry about life after death or indeed whether there's
    an almighty creator waiting for my explanation at the end of life.

    I'll just live my life according to my own values, make friends, have fun and do
    my own thing for the world in general

    The future can wait, right now i've got the present and i'm going to do
    something useful with it.

    Best of luck to all atheists, agnostics and religious believers out there.

  • Daniel  - openmindedatheist - What foolish logic
    To say the future can wait and you're just going to live life as you see fit and
    see what happens later, is likened to being on a plane awaiting your skydiving
    jump, but saying that putting on the parachute can wait. "I'm just going to
    sit here and enjoy the view and worry about if I have a parachute on or not
    AFTER I jump."

    You need to plan for eternity NOW! After you die, you only have judgement for
    the good/bad you have done. You don't have any choices.
  • Karl Buckland  - Your logic is more foolish
    The problem with your argument is that you don't even know if your parachute
    works. You can't prove to me, or anyone else that what you think will happen
    when you die will actually happen or that God exists at all.

    Let's assume I have no knowledge of God, but I do want to be saved when I die -
    which God? Which Religion? If I follow the wrong one I still go to hell... It's
    a no-win situation for someone who doesn't already believe because you can't
    prove anything.
  • poof  - God has...
    The proof you continue to seek has already been given to you. The problem is
    not in the proof it is in you. Karl, Sorry charlie. You cannot see it. As far
    as no knowledge of God is concerned. How is that relevant to you? You have
    been told repeatedly and continue to reject it. The other one is non of your
    business. Jesus tells us if we were truely blind there would be no sin in that.
    "But we see" you say and your sin remains. Holster your teeth my friend
    and beleive. Otherwise reap your reward.

    g
  • Daudi  - salaam?
    Some people believe that Mohammed tells them to blow themselves up in a crowd of
    people in his name. The Jesus of the European Middle Ages told the Crusaders to
    kill and maim Muslims for him.

    "Truth" and "proof" are all in the eye of the beholder, Glen.
    And, it is very dependent on the time in history in which you are living. Just
    because you are blind to those facts doesn't mean that you are right.
  • Robin  - Daudi - salaam?
    You seem to be drifting from topic to topic.

    The question isn't of morals here now, its about creation vs evolution.So this
    argument does not hold much water in this forum.



    If you read the bible Jesus says If someone slaps you on one cheek turn the
    other..He never defended Himself when he was falsely accused. The bible says the
    weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual...all this should be enough
    to explain that Christians adhere to the teachings o Jesus.

    The crusaders were not true followers of Christ or understood the scriptures
    becoz if they did then scoffers would not be able to use that excuse against
    Christianity today.There are so many professing Christians who are not really
    Christians; you have to look at the fruit to know if it is real.

    Please do not compare Christians to Muslim extremists.

    Truth is verifiable, but if you choose not to believe then there is no proof
    left...

  • Glen  - is that a trumet?
    doubti, doubti, doubti. Yup I misspelled your name on purpose. Continue making
    excuses by the things wicked men do and them blaming God for it. By doing this
    you simply demonstrate that you know God is and that you hate Him out of your
    own misunderstanding. Time and era don't change the existance of planet Earth,
    its atmosphere, the delicate temperature requirements for life, the sun or any
    other start in the sky. It only changes the wickedness of mans behaviours.
  • Professor of History  - Daudi-salaam?
    There's that Crusades business again. The very nature of Islam led them to
    first conquer and put to the sword those who would not convert (or die). Then
    they decided that Christian pilgrims going to worship in Palestine were fair
    game for enslavement, and that Christian shrines were dandy places for looting.
    ANY non-Muslim was (is) DOUBLE taxed. When your neighbor appeals for help from
    hoodlums who turn his home into a crack house, turning his sons into Janissaries
    and making whores of his daughters, of COURSE you will come to help him
    out--with all the steel you can muster.

    Allah the Merciful! In a pig's eye!
  • LAB  - Seriously : D
    Karl, seriously!! You would rather jump out of a plane with NO parachute, than
    jump out of a plane WITH a parachute because you don't know if it would open!!
    HAHAHA!!! Listen to your logic, or lack thereof. Ever heard of Pascal?? Try a
    parachute - you has everything to gain, & nothing to lose. BTW, Jesus said, if
    you choose to believe, you will know. Think about that. And if you truly
    wonder if he's there, real, & the only way, just ask him to show you. It works
    every time. That's because he cares more about showing himself to you, than you
    care about finding him.
  • LAB  - Missing the point
    Dear openminded aethist, BTW that is an oxymoron, you are missing the point.
    Yes, you can live your life exactly as you say because you aren't worried about
    present or future consequences. But whether you care or not, someone a lot
    bigger than you, who does know the answers, cares about you. And he has gone to
    the utmost length to reach you with the truth so you don't have to suffer future
    consequences, in fact, he loves you so much that he removed eternal consequences
    for your short sighted philosophy, if you would just accept it. But he also
    loves you enough to let you make your own choice & suffer the consequences. The
    nature of love is that it cannot be forced, otherwise it isn't love. He has
    something incredibly better for you both now and after this life. THAT is the
    point. If you choose to continue in your self absorbed philosophy, I would say
    "good luck to you!", but fortunately, there is no such thing as...
  • Matt  - What can we do?
    We don't have to do anything.If they burn the books so be it.God is ultimatly in
    control.Just like when i hand out a track,if they throw it away,that is on
    them.We have done what we are suppose to do.We can lead a horse to water but we
    cannot make him drink.No one can come to me accept the Father who sent me draws
    them.Jesus own words.Hey if all the boks are burned accept one and that person
    is saved who kept the one,then Christ is glorified.Jesus said one soul is worth
    more than all the treasure this world has to offer.
  • Tim Adams  - Over 70%
    It is a shame that a large percent of Christians go to colleges and lose their
    faith when being taught "Evolution" . A different RELIGION! Not science
    . They have no professors to teach Creation, (they would get expelled).I think
    it is great that Ray stands for truth, and is giving an answer for the hope that
    is in him! It is the right thing to do!

    Thanks Ray!
  • Robin Samuel  - Keep up the fight!
    Hi there,



    I am writting from Newcastle UK to express my support of the awesome work you
    guys are doing out there.

    Is there any way that this can be extended to this part of the world.If so, how
    can we help to spread the word. Keeping in mind this is the place where the
    pandora box was first opened so we need to put a lid on it here urgently.

    There is no work carried out here to support the Truth by the churches or
    Christians and the desperation is real....pls help.
  • Matt Burks  - There is no God
    i wouldn't mind a book myself im a atheist and i feel alot of people
    missunderstand evolution...

    evolution does not try and explain the start of the universe that is the big
    band and evolution does not try to answer how lfe started thats abiogenesis.

    look im here to say there is no God... but thats ok.



    everything will be ok in the end. if its not ok its not the end :)



    love you fellow humans! ^_^

  • ty
    i think this is a good idea, i am a college student myself and see what the
    brain washing of evolution has done on campus. people need to hear both sides of
    the argument. university of montana really needs this outreach!
  • Sarah  - a common misconception
    When religious and non-religious people discuss matters such as these, I think
    there is a common misunderstanding about what foundational texts are and should
    be. In religion you have sacred texts that contain answers. How did we get here?
    Consult the text (the Bible, the Quar'an, etc.). What will happen in the future?
    Consult the text.

    Science has texts, too, but nobody thinks they are authoritative the way
    religious people think their religious texts are. Why? Is it because scientific
    texts are less accurate than, say, the Quar'an is? Not necessarily. The key
    difference is that scientific texts are not expected to be more than
    well-crafted guesses.

    Why would anyone consult somebody's guess, when you can have the divine insight
    of Allah or God or some other deity at your fingertips? The reason is, because
    those guesses have been refined over time and as a result they are often (though
    not always) pretty ...
  • marvi  - I am glad for this!
    It make me angry too. How can I get a free copy of this book? let me know,
    Thanks,
  • Ben  - Confused
    Um, why is he including his own incredibly uninformed assessment on the big bang
    in a book about evolution. I feel like some part of it is going to include his
    ridiculous ridiculous idea that evolution is the same thing as abiogenesis.

    And I love how he's turning this into a "look at how angry the atheists
    are" campaign as well. Real classy.
  • Isaac Bell  - Sin Blinds
    Hello. I would like to explain something that will hopefully shine some light on
    the subject of God.

    The bible says we have three parts to us.
    Spirit, Soul, and body.

    Body being the physical. We use our body to interact with the physical world.
    Your using your physical eyes right now to read this text.

    Our soul i believe is our inner being. The thing that is looking out from your
    eyes. The thing inside you. The thing that leaves you when you die. Along with
    your spirit. (when a dead person is found, you say you found so and so's body.)
    anyway my point

    In the bible it says God is spirit.

    If we want to see and commune with God. We need to use our spirit. If your are
    still in sin, Your spirit is dead. You cannot see or know the things of God, For
    they are spiritually discerned.

    Ask yourself these questions with reflective truth.
    Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever s...
  • Hannah  - Thanks
    Dear Ray & Kirk,
    I think this is awesome what you are doing,thank you for wanting to do this and
    letting the Lord use you and others.
    And making people aware that college is only giving you one side of the
    story,any school for that matter!! I support you guys and all who are giving
    these books out and I have started a prayer group on facebook for you two and
    all of the people who will be giving these books out and also prayer for the
    college students who will be receiving these books.
    That the Lord would do amazing things!:):):):)
    so God Bless and know that there are Christians who are supporting you for doing
    this!!:):):):)so don't give up!!
    and thank you for Waking Up! Standing Up! & Not Giving Up!!
    you all are in my prayers.

    God Bless<
  • Christopher
    If it's true that "atheists are encouraging college students on campuses
    where the distributions are taking place to get as many copies of the book as
    they can" and then alter them - what can we do to circumvent this tactic by
    the atheists?
  • Kai
    I'm an atheist, this doesn't enrage me. Gimme a break. I would like a free copy
    of The Origin of Species. I used to have a copy but I gave mine away. If some
    religious group wants to spend money to publish and give me a copy, that's cool.
    I wouldn't mind looking at the 50-page forward either, but if it's like the
    usual evolution counter-arguments I've read on Answers In Genesis and
    TalkOrigins I can't promise I won't giggle.
  • zzz  - books
    Correct me if I am wrong. As I understand it, Charles Darwin's observations and
    conclusions from "on the origin of species" are logical. In this book,
    he argues that over time organisms change to adapt to their environment. This
    is seen in drug-resistant bacteria, peppered moths, etc.



    Where he went askew is in his second book " the descent of Man". Here
    he links small changes observed to a grand scheme. All life, through small
    changes over eons of time, evolved from a common organism. It is reasonable
    that he living in his time, would think that. However with knowledge of modern
    genetics, such a claim I believe is preposterous.
  • glen schmeisser  - thanks to all the skeptics
    I have a2 year old at home. She has learned a new word..."Why?" I
    really want to thank all those questioneers in this thread. You guys are
    really helping me with the one millointh "Why?" my granddaughter asks.




    Practice makes perfect!



    g
  • William  - Deluded Christians
    No one knows where they will go when they die. I do not and either do you. You
    only imagine where you go, you only hope it will be as you imagine, and perhaps
    . . . there is nothing at all. I've never been dead and neither have you. But
    you
  • Randy  - Deluded Christians - really?
    If you admit to not knowing where you will go when you die then, with all due
    respect, you are admitting your own ignorance. You are also admitting that it is
    possible that Christians are correct in their understanding of what happens
    after death (since you don't know). So calling us deluded when you are without
    knowledge is completely illogical. Think about it. And consider this: if we are
    correct then you face the most terrifying judgment you could possibly imagine -
    unless you make things right with your Creator. If we are right, the deluded one
    is actually yourself. This is not a joke or a game. You should take these
    thoughts with you and contemplate them as you lay on your pillow and think about
    your life. It is the most important thing that you could ever consider.
  • Karl Buckland
    Except, if I don't believe in any one religion, which one do I choose? How do I
    know it's the right one? If I choose Christianity and Islam turns out to be
    true, I still go to hell...

    William was inferring you are deluded for thinking you know, when you can't
    possible know (you can't prove it). He is saying that nobody can know, so
    admitting he doesn't know isn't deluded.

    Also, what's wrong with admitting ignorance to something that can't be proven?
  • Glen  - knowledge
    Randy, I think it is interesting how you speak of things you were taught in
    school or by word of moth outside school while Christians teachers do the
    identical thing in regard to God and one is called knowledge and the other is
    deemed delusion. A facinating observation. You say we don't know but the one
    who does has told us. The very one that has made all things, including
    knowledge. And you call it delusin and ignorance. But you'll beleive the
    teachers in school. funny really.
  • Tim Adams  - reply Deluded Christians
    If you are right then you have no worries, but on the other hand if you are
    wrong, Wow we are worried for you.
  • Damned by Glen1  - Good try, but...
    ...that argument was covered by Pascal, and even he said that it was a joke.
    And according to the bible, sinners will not just be destroyed, but made to have
    never existed '...even thier very memory shall be erased...' which would seem to
    say that all people here are going to heaven, by word-puzzle logic. The problem
    is that there is no god to start with.
  • Rachel Brown  - How sad
    This is ridiculous...



    You dont have to be an atheist to agree with evolutionary theory. This
    destruction of a wonderful book is not only enraging to atheists, but to anyone
    of science and anyone who understands biological evolution.



    Quit it with the darwin crap already. I could care less if darwin hated women,
    or was racist, or was wrong about several things about evolution....we do not
    use his work for evidence any longer, due to the fact it doesnt have extensive
    evidence. We mention that he was the first, that he compared the morphology of
    several animals, and that he lacked 99% of the evidence we have today. He used
    what he saw around him, what he could see with his own eyes and came up with a
    theory. Today, we have direct evidence from our own DNA(so many types of
    evidence in dna i wont even begin to name...), beautiful fossil records with new
    fossils being found every month, plate tectonics, geology, st...
  • glenschmeisser  - Haa,haa,haa
    Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Ha
    a,Haa,Haa,HaaHaa,Haa,HaaHaa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Ha a,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa,Haa.



    whew! Man this post is funny! Guy is chasing is own tail.



    The only thing this guy is able to see is the very thing that proves the
    existance of God and then he rebukes it. Oh, man I gotta stop. I'm getting
    ready to laugh again.



    God has always existed! Just because you cannot or rather will not accept that
    is the crux of your problem. Now you say more or less that this universe that
    is dying while it exists always existed and is with out God; ie. the creator.
    Yes, that was added some time after science additted there was a beginning. So
    now they just change thier minds and say no, no! It has always been. Neatly,
    all these guys can point to is an equation created by them.



    When I look at creation I see a massive effort made by someone bigger than any
    of the...
  • Helen  - How do I volunteer and I also would like a book
    I am a college student and would like to purchase this book and possably pass
    some out at Lorain County Community College in Elyria, OH
  • Josh  - Wasting your time.
    Why do fundamentalist Christians (and others) waste their time with such
    nonsense?



    Write a book about something that will HELP the world instead of dividing it.
    Honestly, does evolution really matter in the grand scheme of things? No. What
    matters is how we live in this life, how treat ourselves and those around us,
    despite religious affiliation.



    Too many fundamentalists waste all of their time, sometimes their entire lives,
    in this world trying to prove to others that their beliefs are
    real/legitamate/the only way etc when the whole time they should be practicing
    the core values of their religion: compassion, giving, peace, and love. Because
    when it all boils down to it, evolution doesn't matter. Our lives are so tiny in
    comparison to the history of the world. We're born, we live, and we die. And
    when we die, one of two things are going to happen: There will be an afterlife,
    or there won't. End of sto...
  • Glen Schmeisser  - Why Oh why?
    A life has been lived...

    A life has been given...

    and a book compiled to cronicle that life.



    THat you don't believe is the problem, not for the fundamentalist but for you.



    A Christian witnesses TO the work of Christ not for Him. The witness is to
    remove any excuse you can utter when you stand before God to give an account of
    your life.



    He will ask why you did not believe in Me and you will have no excuse if you do
    not accept. You will have signed you own warrant.



    We waste our time for you! Because we want you to recieve what we have
    recieved. Thereby pardoning the warrant for your life. WE get nothing out of
    it. Our salvation is not increased nor is it decreased because we did not do
    it. Jesus did. It is identical for all.



    Of course you don't understand.



    g
  • Abi A.  - God says do not worry!
    "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all
    kinds of evil against you because of me."-Matthew 5:11



    "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has
    prepared for those who love him"--1 Corinthians 2:9



  • Aaddrick Williams  - Biased?
    I'm pretty sure this comment won't be left on the page for public view, but that
    aside,

    What does Origin of the Species have to do with Darwin's personal views? or the
    something from nothing theory? It sounds like you're biasing to the point of
    propaganda.
  • Glen Schmeisser  - What?
    okay let us then discuss bias!



    Darwin's personal biases led him to the conclusions he saw. As with all
    scientific observations the obverver has a bias to start out, it is called an
    hypothesis. Duh! To be more precise it is also known that the observer affects
    the observation. Any intelligent scientist knows this as well.



    Origin states clearly that all things came from a progenitor. regress that to
    the very beginning. Duh! The initial progenitor was life came from nothing.
    Try to think. I know it is hard.



    g
  • Daudi  - it kills me!
    A bias is not a hypothesis.

    I have read Origin of Species many times and there isn't a single reference to
    the realm of cosmology, which is the study of what preceded the Big Bang.
    Creationists are the ones who argue that something came from nothing--not
    evolutionists.

    Biological evolution has three observable and undeniable causes: natural
    selection, genetic drift and genetic mutation. You can easily believe in God and
    that takes nothing away from the fact that evolution is occurring with every
    incidence of mitosis/meiosis on the planet. If you don't believe in evolution,
    go to a hospital and get a drug-resistant staph infection. Have fun with that.

    Sorry fundamentalists, but you can deny that the earth is round, but that
    doesn't make it true.
  • Glen Schmeisser  - not even close fella
    Okay let me get this straight the Staphalococcus bacteria (pl) that have
    developed resistance to antibiotics is now a new species? Can you please tell
    me the new name of this organism because it is no longer a Staphalococcus!
    Maybe it has become a fungi? Or a dolfin? That's why we cannot fix it! It is
    a dolfin. NUTS!!!



    Fella you have only described adaptation. nothing more and in the process
    ascribed speciation as a result.



    Your first paragraph is so rediculously false as to be comical in nature; oops I
    really did not mean to make a pun!?!?!!? nevertheless, in order to
    "speciate" one is required to start somewhere. Since you have no
    understanding of what you have read one must explain it to you. Evolutionary
    BIOLOGY starts with the primordial ooze that was majically struck by lightening
    to creat just one peptide bond that most likely was useless to start, there are
    many more than 20 amin...
  • Daudi
    The idea of a "species" is a human category created by us so that we can
    conceptualize different organisms. However, evolutionary adaptation occurs on
    the level of DNA between generations. Every non-twin organism has a completely
    unique genetic fingerprint, and that is the crux of evolution.

    Drug-resistant Staphalococcus is a good example of how this process occurs.
    Twenty years ago, a simple dose of antibiotic (like tetracycline) would have
    knocked it out. However, the overuse of such drugs has put a selective advantage
    to those Staphalococci who do not possess the amino acid chains vulnerable to
    tetracycline. If you look at the DNA of drug-resistant staph, it is different
    than non-drug resistant variants. Tetracycline-vulnerable staph infections are
    increasingly disappearing from the panacea, and (like it or not) this is a form
    of evolution.
  • glen schmeisser  - reeeeallly?
    Daudi,



    so let me get this striaght. A single point mutation in DNA making a protein
    work to prevent tetracycline from doing it's thing; I'd say job but I don't know
    what it's job is all I know it Tet will do what is does is bacteria; which is to
    prevent the ribosomes from making protein is speciation? Paaaleeeeez!!!



    You are aware that people have these point mutations riddling the genome? Right?
    So that means each and every human is a different species. And that does not
    even mention the X and Y chromosome that seperates male from female!



    wHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IS BETTER KNOWN AS ADAPTATION. oops hit the caps key
    sorry.



    Like it or not!



    The bacteria is still not a dolfin! still a little bug. Just can do a new
    trick.



    g
  • Karl
    Daudi does indeed describe adaptation, but it is adaptation through natural
    selection: The bacteria that weren't resistant have been killed, leaving those
    that are resistant to multiply.

    As you no doubt know, evolution happens in tiny steps, just like the one you've
    just described. The DNA for those two bacteria are obviously different because
    of that change. This breaks down a bit on bigger organisms, like humans, because
    we are so much more complicated each human's DNA is different from any others,
    but one Staphalococcus bacteria DNA is much simpler, due to the bacteria being a
    simpler organism and so their DNA is identical to one another - unless it has a
    different resistance - hence the change.

    Also, as Daudi explained, a 'species' is defined by us humans. If you want to be
    pedantic and say that every single organism with different DNA is a member of a
    different species then that isn't what the term means. I...
  • glenschmeisser  - pedantic
    Hilarious! I'm being perdantic! HA. Again hilarious. I am not the sound mind
    that brought up the uniquness of DNA. Big deal! Even the bacteria with out
    the antibiotic resistance is unique in this way. Of course the arguement over
    words is the only way a scientist can make a point. I could care less about a
    word; even pedantic BTW I am still laughing; go ahead and hide behind your word.
    I am going to look at the obiousness of proof as your shoud be also. Now
    uniqueness of DNA is required for the speciation. Okay then explain why the
    "species" have entirley different sets and numbers of Chormosomes. ANd
    explain the diference in the male and felame chomosome as it relates to
    speciation.

    g
  • engineer87  - pedantic - use dictionary
    glenshmeisser,
    Perhaps you should spend some time reading about genetics and it's relationship
    to evolutionary biology(using reason and healthy skepticism). Obviously you are
    having difficulties with the mechanics behind cellular structures such as
    genetic material. I'm sure if you began to argue with Karl about the Bible he
    would have the forethought to read your materials, using subjective reason.
    On why men and women have different sex chromosomes - it seems apparent right?
    If not you need to hit the books.
    The other mechanics are beyond the scope of this tiny text box... there are
    many suitable sources right here on your internet :)
  • Glen  - Poor, poor engeneer
    Thanx but I spent years doing so and it is still empty. But your alooftness is
    sparking me. It is palpable and I love it! It is a resounding witness to the
    fact that I am not among you. I would ask you to hit the books for the reason
    there are different sexes and please, please try to demonstrate how the came
    about if you can. But you cannot! Of course the evasion comes with the
    demotion of the person. "Oh, you're just not informed enough. You need to
    go back to school. I am too good to explain it to you." Arrogant
    alooftness does not demonstrate a point.
  • glenschmeisser  - why then..
    daudi,



    Okay so another question..if evolution is real then why are there still single
    celled organisms in existance? Shouldn't they have evolved beyond that by now?
    All these complex multicelluar organisms and they have been abandoned by the
    rule! Poor little guys. Have soome compassion for them!



    Argue ecosystem if you will. I'll catch you.
  • Daudi
    You are implying that evolution is geared toward some kind of "end," as
    if multicellular life is inherently more desirable from an evolutionary
    standpoint than single celled life. From an evolutionary standpoint, single
    celled organisms are highly specialized and successful within their niches. Just
    because single- and multicelled organisms share common ancestors does not mean
    that one disappears when there has been genetic divergence. Without single
    celled organisms, life on this planet would cease altogether (you know, the food
    chain).

    The leap from single celled organisms to multicelled ones is not as
    extraordinary as previously thought and has been reproduced in laboratory
    settings many ways, many times:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?db=Books &rid=cell.section.61
  • Karl
    Evolution isn't intelligent. It doesn't have a mind, or an 'end goal'. Creatures
    don't evolve forwards or backwards.

    Instead it's simply about survival of the genes/DNA that make up that creature.
    Some single-celled organisms evolved into multicellular organisms because it
    gave them an advantage, but the single-celled organisms can still reproduce, so
    they continue to exist. Why would they evolve into a different form if their
    current form serves them so well?

    The same goes for more complicated creatures like Crocodiles, who according to
    fossils don't appear to have evolved much at all for 200 million years. If an
    animal can reproduce successfully and any modifications don't benefit it, then
    there won't necessarily be any.
  • glenschmeisser  - I got you!
    You guys are not as quick as you think you are, nor clever!



    Nich! YES! someone went there. Bad move. Since the nich is still there for
    the progenitor then the progenitor must still be there! show me this
    progenitor!!



    you can't! It does not exist. You loose! Sorry Charlie!



    Natural selection does dictate a dead end for the progenotor that is why
    everyone is looking in fossiles for them. Otherwise we could point to them
    enjoying life right along side with us.

    bye-bye.

    g
  • Karl
    Let's assume that the niche is still there (although natural circumstances could
    mean it isn't!) - that doesn't at all mean that the progenitor must still be
    there. Let's assume one species evolves into two new species. If both of those
    species are better tailored to particular aspects of the environment than the
    original species, then why would the original species continue to exist?

    And no, natural selection does not dictate a dead end. It simply dictates that
    the creatures who survive will be the ones best suited to their environment.
  • Glen  - nice thanx for the help
    "And no, natural selection does not dictate a dead end. It simply dictates
    that

    the creatures who survive will be the ones best suited to their
    environment." thereby demonstrating the end of the progenitor because it no
    longer exists. Dead end for the putative progenitor.

    "Why would the progenitor continue to exists?" because it can fella.
    The enviorment is still there. Just because a better, faster, stronger one comes
    along does not negate the first. The only perssure is natural selection. If
    the newby comes along and is better at growing it is more popular and eaten at a
    more rapid rate that the progenitor. The newby kinda protects daddy that way.

    g
  • Daudi
    I'm not sure I understand Glen's confusing response, but he seems to be saying
    that environments are fixed entities, which is not true. An extreme event like a
    forest fire or asteroid will select for certain species that are able to survive
    those conditions. However, we know from modern events that seemingly random
    mutations can protect certain populations from extreme events. A good example of
    this is the near extinction of the North American Elm due to disease. However,
    the Princeton Elm, which was hybridized before DED consumed 99% of American
    Elms, for some reason has immunity to the disease. So, the progenitors died, but
    the offspring lives on.

    Western Ponderosa Pine trees are another example where they have evolved a
    tolerance to forest fires. Outside the Rocky Mountains, pine trees do not have
    this adaptation although the DNA of the trees is remarkably similar. Pine trees
    in the Rocky Mountains that cannot sur...
  • Sarah
    Glen,

    I appreciate your attempt at a nuanced critique of evolutionary theory; however,
    your logic contains a flaw. The fact that a new organism is more populous (I
    think you meant to say "populous" instead of "popular") does not
    mean it will necessarily be eaten at a more rapid rate than its less-fit,
    less-populous progenitor. I see your logic--if more of something exists then
    there must be more to be eaten. But if the "newbies" (as you put it) are
    more fit, then they may very well be better at hiding from predators and thus
    less likely to be eaten, despite there being more of them.

    Another problem is that you assume the "daddy" stays the same. It's a
    bit more difficult to explain why that isn't true, but I will try if you are
    curious.
  • Glen  - Sarah
    Sarah honey you just don't get it do you. The guys doing the eating are by
    definition of your threory changing too. Selective pressure remember. Those
    that are better at eating the newbies eat the newbies. Sorry honey but
    evolutionary theory works on all the oranisms not just one at a time. Now as
    far as "daddy" is concerned...what I hear everyone on this thread saying
    is we willnever find the evidence needed because 1) fossilization of the
    progenitors is not nearly as good as fossilization of the mutated 2) the
    progenitor is no longer the progenitor becasue it too has mutated into something
    else. Watch you "very well may be's" hon. it is nothing more than
    speculation which is the very basis of evolution. Daudi, Is your example still
    an elm tree? Conference of resistance to predation does not make the tree a
    different tree. Only resistant. Here man has sped up the process a bit.
    Hybridization. N...
  • Damned by Glen1  - Fossils...
    You're still not paying attention! EVERY individual is a link between ancestor
    and progeny. You are a link between mother and daughter (assuming you have, or
    will have one) and so a link between everything that comes before and after you.
    If you know about the fossil record at all, you should know that the chances of
    anything getting fossilized in the first place are so small that they can only
    really be explained by vast numbers of individuals existing over vast periods of
    time.



    Look at any 500 year old suit of armour from any culture. Humans are a foot
    taller now. Oh,yeah! The earth is only 6000 years old, and was created in less
    than a week! Right?
  • Damned by Glen1  - We CAN!
    They are called EVERY OTHER CREATURE ON THE PLANET! Each individual lives, and
    dies. The ones that can, pass on thier genes. We can indeed show in the fossil
    record the progression from bacteria to mammal, and there are no proven
    exeptions to the progression. See, we can show over 40 stages in the
    progression from rodent-like mammal to homo-sapien. You choose to see only 39
    gaps. And WHEN we find more progressions, you will see only more gaps. And you
    call me beyond hope.
  • Anonymous
    Darwin had no biases - he tested, hypothesised, used intellect (something you
    sadly lack) and came to conclusions that were then subjected to further rigorous
    analysis and scepticism before finally publishing the Evolution of Species...and
    that took twenty years after he first wrote it



    Your comments on this page are very condescending - as above "Try to think.
    I know its hard"...this does your arguments no good whatsoever in the eyes
    of anyone rational.
  • Glen  - Why?
    The very fact the it took Darwin 20 years to formulate this theory is a
    demonstration of how hard it was to think up! Anyone with a brain knows how
    hard it is to discover something. Thinking is HARD! Even for the
    intellectually elite.
  • Professor of History  - Glen-Why?
    It wasn't that it was so HARD to think up, it was just that Darwin did it in his
    spare time, and he was kind of a lazybones. His work ethic kept him out of more
    diligent pursuits.
  • John  - Really?
    Galatians 6:1-
    "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual
    should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you
    too be tempted."

    Ray's very message, his crusade as it were, against atheism really is pushing a
    bit far. He's found a way to make money off of this by feeding the
    anti-atheists. He's preaching, in short, to the converted.

    The messages of hate, of prejudice found on his related site
    "pulltheplugonatheism.com" are plenty evidence of this. The very title
    of his book "You can lead an atheist to water but you can't make them
    think" is an affront to all people- I'm insulted that a Christian soul would
    stoop to such low levels.

    Do not cast a stone. Do not stoop to such low levels. Guide with love and
    compassion, not sticks and stones, as Ray is doing. I urge all of you to
    consider the anger evident in that which ...
  • Svetlana  - How can I volunteer/read the intro?
    Hi-this is definitely a much needed campaign. I'm excited about it and to learn
    more--how can I help/volunteer--can I hand out books on my campus?



    God bless!
  • Christopher
    If you want to distribute the books in public, ask your school first if and
    where you can distribute the books.
  • Professor of History  - distributing books...
    Yeah, that's right! If you want to distribute ANYTHING in public, ASK FIRST!
    That's the American Way!



    I mean, the First Amendment, doesn't it say somewhere that we must be
    politically correct at all times and pass all printed matter through the
    Information Czar, or something?



    Oh wait. That's for the SECOND term...



    But seriously, isn't it funny how the very greybeards who USED to shout,
    "Question Authority!!!" now don't want THEIR authority questioned?



    Yet they still repeat that same tired mantra...
  • Edward Watson  - How do I volunteer?
    I too was once brainwashed by this everything came from nothing ideology and
    indoctrinated at a young age by dinosaur coloring books and Jurassic park movies
    and public schools and so on and so forth. Lucky for me the Lord pulled me out
    of such a destructive and degrading mindset. I want to help I would like to
    volunteer to passing out these books on my local campus. And to those whose
    love to combat this same topic I would recommend ordering books tapes or dvd's
    from Drdino.com they provide a lot of mental armor for Christians in a world of
    atheists.
  • Andy  - then where did God come from?
    Please explain, because I really don't understand how you can say
    "everything came from nothing" is wrong and yet still posit the
    existence of an entity, namely God, who himself came from nothing. And it's no
    answer to say God always was. You could just as easily say the same for a
    universe without God - it always existed. Indeed, some scientific theories do
    say that, more or less.
  • Glen  - Fair question!
    Andy we posit an entity that who Himself has always been! Yes you know it. You
    have even said it. But I am not nor is God ruled by your self imposed
    retsriction of not being allowed to say it. It is the truth regardless of your
    understanding-regardless of your accepting it. You say it is equally fair to say
    the universe is in the same category...More or less. Isn't that like being
    pregnant? Either a woman is or she isn't. Bad question. Since your mind is
    governed by creation you have no ability to move beyond it's restrictions and
    comprehend that God is outside of it. Not ruled by it. In fact, creation bears
    witness to Him; even you give Him glory Pal. No matter how hard you shake your
    fist at Him.
  • Mike  - Hey
    When and where can I donwload the PDF? Thx and God bless
  • Isaiah (aka God-Sent)  - The book
    I was just wondering if there is any way to get the book other than online
    because I don't have a credit or debit card. I'd like to read the insert and the
    book itself.
  • Katie Bellagia  - I don't understand
    Allot of me and my fellow Christians believe in evolution as well as
    creationism. Where in the bible does it say that there was not some kind of
    structure likened to evolution? Everything being designed for a purpose, why
    would god create the world, but then have so much evidence, factual hard and
    tangible evidence, for adaptation and evolution? We do it ourselves everyday
    with dog breeds, (I spend allot of time with puppies in my line of work), you
    can mix together certain traits to make a new kind. In just a few hundred to one
    thousand years we have turned a wild wolf into a chihuahua, they didn't have
    those back in Jesus's day!
    Even if it isn't true, evolution I mean, what does this "fight" about it
    have anything to do with accepting Christ and his love into your heart? We
    should be spreading love and compassion to all people around, not creating
    clicks and separating ourselves from our fellow man even further. ...
  • Romans1_16
    Let me begin by saying that I am a creationist. Even aitheists say that you
    might as well chuck the whole Bible if you don't believe the very beginning.
    Tell me this: if God used evolution to create, then do animals have spirits or
    souls? If so, why were the Jews instructed to sacrifice them? Wouldn't that be
    like killing your neighbor (or maybe like killing your great, great, etc.,
    grandfather)? And if animals do not have souls then at what point in the
    process were souls given?

    Do you believe that Adam and Eve were real historical people? If not, why was
    Adam included in the geneology of Jesus and why does the Bible refer to him and
    Eve again and again as if they were real people? And if they were real people,
    couldn't you venture a step further and admit that the Bible was telling the
    truth, not only about their having been historical, but also about their having
    been made from the dust of the ground and a rib?...
  • mike lee  - help to understand
    what you are describing is micro-evolution. The chihuahua and wolf are still in
    the canine family. What Ray is arguing against is macro-evolution. That
    everything came from nothing, i.e. there is no God. This is in direct opposition
    of the bible and I encourage you to study to show yourself approved, a workman
    who need not be ashamed and get in the "fight". It is a spiritual
    battle.

    In Love,

    Mike
  • Daudi
    There is no difference between "micro" and "macroevolution."
    Biologists do not make such a distinction. Evolution occurs on a genetic level
    within the DNA of individuals and occurs over multiple, successive generations.
    The isolation of breeding populations from each other (genetic drift) eventually
    results in speciation, which is what Mike seems to be alluding to. When you look
    at lemurs in Madagascar or kangaroos in Australia, you can see the results. I
    have yet to hear a plausible (or even Biblical) explanation from a Creationist
    that explains why there are these islands of species (plants, insects,
    bacterium, protozoa included!).

    Speciation does not occur in opposition to God by necessity...it just seems that
    many of the people who follow Living Waters line of thinking feel the need to
    find an enemy in scientists for some strange reason. Maybe listening to the
    actual ideas behind the theory evoluti...
  • Robin Samuel  - Difference in micro and macro
    Daudi,



    Looking at some similarities among species is no way to conclude that they have
    evolved into one another.

    Just to specify something here that all evolutionists consider themselves to be
    Scientist or biologists, they also think that people who beleive the bible are
    dim witted and that we have an enemy in Scinece.

    The fact is that Science and Scientist have actually helped to prove that
    creation is the result of intelligent design obviously implies a Designer.

    Look at some books that non Christians have written to disprove evolution. There
    is plausible explanation avaialble on the theory of irreducible complexity, DNA,
    cell, bacterial flagellum etc etc ; all of which sufficiently prove that we die
    not evolve but was the product of an intelligent creator.

    From the Goo to you by way of the Zoo! - thanks to evolution
  • Eupraxsophy  - Differences?
    Just like any creditable scientist wouldn't give

    the Pelt-Down man consideration because it has

    been proven to be a hoax, then why would any

    creditable science give Intelligent Design any

    consideration? It too has been proven in a

    Pennsylvania supreme court of law to be a hoax.



    It is deception and a psuedo-science. A dressed

    -up name for creationism. True science does not

    deal in the super-natural. Belief in the super

    -natural is known as superstition.
  • Mike  - Evolution and Creationism are not mutually exclusi
    Katie, your comments are great. What is this fight about? It's certainly not
    about getting people to accept Christ. Please keep your faith and also keep an
    open mind about scientific theories.
  • Tim Adams
    If God didn't create and Evolution is true ,then the first sin didnt happen and
    seperation from God didn't happen, then why would we need Jesus? What is the
    purpose of Jesus's Death if we Enolved.The bible says death came by Adams sin
    and life thru Jesus Christ,

    Look ,we cant prove either one cause we weren't there.

    I can tell you you that the more we dig up and discover proves the places in the
    bible were real and the people of the bible are real people. evolutionist have a
    theroy , not a testable fact, they cant make life from nothing with all the
    equipment they have why would any one believe that it could have happened any
    time with out a cause,or a purpose. thats crazy. In the begining God Created!
    with a purpose and a reason.
  • Robin Samuel  - On the fence...fellows
    I cannot understand how people can call themselves Christians and say that they
    believe in evolution. Do you guys not read the bible or is it too hard?

    Bible clearly states that God created the heaven and earth in 6 literal 24 hr
    day. How can you pick and choose what you believe?



    (In just a few hundred to one

    thousand years we have turned a wild wolf into a chihuahua, they didn't have

    those back in Jesus's day!)

    How do you know what was around and what will be in 100-1000 yraers.How absurd
    is that!

    Either you are in this camp or the other, there really is no middle ground. So
    please decide. Your acceptance or rejection of the word of God is not going to
    change anything but at least you will not be on the fence.

  • Karl Buckland
    Every Catholic (as the Pope has decreed) believes that Genesis is metaphorical
    only.
  • Glen  - liar
    This staement is a flat lie!
  • Damned by Glen1  - No, no it isn't.
    The pope has also decreed that purgatory no longer exists, aliens aren't
    forbidden by the bible, and some rather interesting ones as well!! Check out
    the 'Bull of Borgia' for the edict that gives all the new world to Spain (still
    on the books, not yet recinded), made by the same pope who's favorite party game
    was to force female 'servants' to run around the vatican naked, picking up
    treats while being chased by the cardinals.



    When calling something a lie (which IS allowed within the accepted rules of
    debate) you should provide your evidence and/or argument for it being a lie.
    Calling someone a liar proves nothing but the fact that thier statement struck
    home, and you wish it hadn't.
  • Mike  - Not sitting on a fence
    The bible doesn't address evolution, so reading it won't prove or disprove
    evolution. Why do you think someone is sitting on a fence just because they
    don't believe exactly what you believe when it comes to Christianity?
  • Mark Dew  - Take up the shield of faith
    This is no small battle. I think that this proves where the important battle of
    our day lies, and that is the battle for the beginning. It is time we took back
    Genesis. Not only do we assert that evolution is a lie on a grand scale, but
    that "old age of the earth" theory opened the door for this lie. We
    need to reclaim the Biblical time line for the sake of our children and our
    grandchildren. Thank you Ray for your tenacity. I am excited to partner with
    you.
  • Goldenman39z  - Bringing the TRUTH to the Young People
    For too long the evolutionists have 'brain washed' the people with a one sided
    view of a 'conjecture', an unproven theory! This book brings LIGHT to the
    "real truth" in GOD's world

    and His WORD.



    The majority of the young generation have been "conditioned" in school
    to 'think' of themselves as animals with no soul, and no purpose! Just a mere
    series of accidents? Oh no, we have a Creator. The truth shall set you Free
    AMERICA! Great book Ray! God Bless!
  • Michael Laidlaw MD  - Not Alone
    I am so proud of Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron for coming up with this idea and
    putting it into action. I am a medical doctor and am fortunate to have been
    saved by the Lord despite so much education in the sciences (and even medical
    training) which scoffed at intelligent design. This book and introduction will
    no doubt be read many students and will open up hearts and minds despite
    resistance from the Enemy.
  • Marcus
    Enraged? I really don't find myself enraged. Mildly amused, perhaps. Fact is,
    the people who buy your altered Origin of Species are likely believers to begin
    with. So go ahead, preach to the choir. But if they read it, and they actually
    get some kind of understanding of natural selection, it may well backfire on
    you. Your belief will fill the gaps until they close. You may not understand the
    concept of evidence, probability, and proof; but some people do. And they're
    searching for better explanations. With luck, they might just find them.
  • Matt  - Their not buying for themselves.
    Their buying so they can hand out to kids who may believe the nonsense of
    darwinism.Remember as david said the heavens declare there to be a God.David
    also said the fool has said in his heart there is no God.Jesus said the truth
    shall set you free and it has set me free from my bondage to sin.
  • Romans1_16  - Sorry
    After I read Glen Schmeisser's comment "Evil is very dark" I wanted to
    click the "thumbs up" but I accedentally clicked the "thumbs
    down". Sorry, I really did like your comments. I thought they were very
    logical. You might say that evil is not only dark, but dull as well.
  • Glen SChmeisser  - back at ya
    back at ya brother! I clicked yours fo fun.
  • Travis B  - Keep it up!
    Ray, you have always been an inspiration! You are a stronger person than I could
    ever be. Stay strong and keep your eye fixed on God's will. Being hated can be
    overwhelming, but you are doing an outstanding thing for everyone, whether they
    realize it or not. Keep up the good work!
  • evo  - who hates Ray?
    Man, you're deluded!

    Who would hate someone for the fact they are misinformed?

    One can hate somebody's behaviour and the way that person disregards reality.

    Did you ever heard of some atheists planning to kill Ray or something of that
    sort? I don't think so.

    "hate"... sheesh!
  • Chris Hoover  - Biologos
    Hi Ray,
    I read through your 50page insert and found it interesting on the subject of
    evolution. It was definitely a view point that I have never heard. I am a
    biochemist though and in my field the theory of evolution is regarded as law. I
    think that it would at least be right to mention that some scientists actually
    feel that scientific discovery has no effect on their own religious beliefs. I
    saw that you mentioned Dr. Francis Collins in your intro and I thought that it'd
    be appropriate to mention the biologo project which looks to solve many of the
    issues people have with the relationship between science and religion.
    Just thought I would see what you thought.
  • Glen Schmeisser  - Evil is very dark
    I am so glad these educated people are running around trying their best to
    prevent other educated people from being brainwashed by popycock propaganda!
    Boy these guys are really perverted! Darwin can brainwash them but Ray Comfort
    cannot!? If they were so easily brainwashed why then call them educated? They
    are not educated at all, but rather only brainwashed to begin with.



    An intelligent person can weigh both sides and arrive at their own conclusion.
    These athiests cannot presume to tell me what I must and must not believe. That
    is mine to do!
  • Steve  - If so intelligent then why have they been duped ?
    Hi

    RE:
    An
    intelligent person can weigh both sides and arrive at their own conclusion.
    These atheists cannot presume to tell me what I must and must not believe. That
    is mine to do!


    Before I respond to this,what is your conclusion and why ?
  • Glen Schmeisser  - HaHaHaHa
    Man Steve, HaHa before you respond? Boy Oh Boy you're funny.



    My position Is irrelevant! Fear is the addressed concern and you should have
    been able to see that.



    The origin of the species is completetly unaltered in any way! Ray has Only
    added a forward. Nothing more. And the opponents of this screech in agony over
    a man plaicing his opinion about it in a forward.





    Come on Steve. If you really want to take it on, bring it! Otherwise remain
    silent.



    g



    If this man's forward is going to do so much dammage to this other man's
    thoeorized Treatise then the work has no legs to stand on to begin with.



  • Karl
    The problem with the foreword is that it has the benefit of 150 years of
    hindsight.

    Of course there are mistakes in the Origin of Species - it's 150 years old and
    science has discovered a great deal in that time. Most of the Origin of Species
    has been proven to be correct, but there was no way for Darwin to get it all
    right with the science he had available to him at the time (no DNA, fewer
    fossils, etc).

    In that aspect I think adding the creationist forward is unfair. Of course you
    can pick holes in the theory of evolution put forward 150 years ago. Picking
    holes in it now is not so easy!
  • Glen  - yes it is!
    Poking holes in a lie is as easy today as it is to do with a 150 year old lie.
    Falsehood is still falsehood. And why must one argue fairness! What does that
    have to do with anything. Lies from the father of them are very difficult to see
    at times but they are always in a very specific direction; away from God. They
    always point to us being able to take His seat when we cannot. Let us then look
    at the way Adam responded to God when asked what happened. He said the woman
    and YOU. oops. Adam blames the woman God put here with him. So even God was
    blamed for Adam's behavior. Adam did not take responsibility upon himself. We
    are still doing that today And the lie is still the same. Darkness tells us to
    go ahead because we will be like God if we do. There is your lie to see every
    single time. It also never changes. it is just carefully mixed with a small
    amout of truth to "hide" it. As if you could hide a (-) sign...
  • Karl Buckland
    I think fairness and honesty have a great deal to do with it. I can lie here, as
    I think Ray Comfort has in his introduction to the Origin of Species. That is
    not fair to the reader. Surely that's the point we're arguing? Omitting
    something important (like 150 years of science) is almost as bad as lying. And
    thus I think it's unfair.

    You can say what I say is false and I can say what you say is false, that gets
    us nowhere. The burden of proof when it comes to evolution is on the Science,
    and it has been proved. 150 years ago it was not as easy to proove as there was
    less evidence, so it's easier to pick holes in.
  • Glen  - integrity
    you say and speak of lies but youi are completely unaware of the fundadmental
    lie that takes your "logic" out of the picture.

    When you say truth is important you are correct. The 150 years has not been
    omitted. It is obvious that Ray inculdes the 150 years of NOT finding the
    missing data! BTW: Karl, wha you hae presented as PROOF is not even close to
    it. Wake up please. and be skeptical of a bone fragment and and artists
    drawing here and there. You are right about the burden of proof. Science has
    failed to do it.
  • Alexander James Hofstetter  - Falsehood is as Falsehood was
    and you just happen to be defending a 2000 year old falsehood.
  • Robert  - You are missing the big picture.
    We are talking about two entirely different realms. On the one hand we have a
    purely physical science, devoid of the supernatural. A look as it were to that
    which is earthy, fleshly, experiential, that which the natural mind can
    comprehend and reason out. In other words, all that is knowable through the
    senses and intellect. A microcosm view of existence. The mind, thus employed
    cannot fathom the realm of existence that is beyond its finite limitations.
    That realm is the spiritual, which the natural man cannot know through the
    senses and intellect. However, the conscience does know something of this realm
    and that knowledge, no matter how hard you try to suppress it, is what creates
    the rub, resulting in anger and hatred of that which makes you afraid. For the
    conscience of man is the law of God written upon the heart.
  • Karl Buckland
    I'm not missing the big picture at all. I think you are.

    You can say, "I know in my heart" as much as I can say you do - that
    prooves nothing.
  • Micah Turner  - no.
    1.
    "On the one hand we have a
    purely physical science, devoid of the supernatural"

    Evolution doesn't imply naturalism. It only observes changes in species over
    time. THAT IS ALL

    2.
    "he conscience does know something of this [spiritual] realm"

    Really? Then how does our conscience fit into our natural brains? How can we
    know what our conscience tells us except through our senses?

    3.
    "and that knowledge, no matter how hard you try to suppress it, is what
    creates
    the rub, resulting in anger and hatred of that which makes you afraid."


    I'm sorry but you're projecting. The only reason you're arguing is because the
    theory of evolution somehow threatens you. You seem to think that evolution has
    something to do with naturalism; and furthermore you make the claim that we can
    only experience life through our senses, but then we also experience life with a
  • Glen  - Micah
    Micah, I love the way you chase you tail with words that lead into other words
    that lead no where. Can you do more. It has been enjoyable to watch you run
    around in circles. But brother can you make shorter posts so that I can read all
    you stuff? please? The dialogue boxes will cut you off after a short number of
    words. I think there may be a character limit.
  • Professor of History  - Karl
    I see no way that "Most of the OoS has been proven to be correct,"
    especially when you look at assumptions that could in NO WAY have been made in
    1859 had they ONLY KNOWN. DNA? One of its discoverers famously claimed it was
    so complex it could not have evolved, but had to be brought here by--get
    this-space aliens.

    And the aliens?

    Then there is the fact that microbiologists by the score--even without DNA in
    the mix-are abandoning evolution by the score.
  • Kelly  - re: Evil is very dark
    If people cannot tell you what to believe, then do not presume to tell others
    what to believe either.



    It goes both ways, which creationists always conveniently forget.
  • Glen  - nope
    we do not convieniently forget. We witness to the truth. It is up to you to
    accept. Since you don't hear truth it is sounds like you are being condemned.

    g
  • Dan  - Witnessing the truth
    By what medium do you witness said truth Glen?
  • Glen  - Medium?
    Dan, I don't think I understand your question.
  • Jordo  - the crux
    Ah! And here is the crux of your mental existence! You. Don't. Understand.

    If you are interested in the truth of the universe then pick up a book! Or,
    instead of gabbing about how someones research is incorrect..do your own. This
    is a beautiful universe we live in. Learn about it...what could be more
    important? Would god create billions upon trillions of cubic kilometers of space
    with magnificent "miracles" going on all the time and not want you to
    figure it out? Witness what science has witnessed. Then give me some proof of a
    burning bush. This comment probably will be ruined or deleted by moderators.
    Good on ya! The truth hurts.
  • Greg  - A Fool Has Said in His Heart There Is No God
    If modern science was established on God's principles of intelligent design,
    then I could agree with you. God want us to discover the great and wonderful
    things He has created. But a science void of God is like eating an apple from a
    poisoned tree--you can't trust it! There has never been any evidence shown for
    proof of evilution (spelling indended) and Kent Hovind's offer of 250K still
    stands for any evidence for proving evilution...because there isn't any! There
    is no missing link, only missing ink from the reams of paper produced to
    propagate the lie of evilution! But don't mistake God's slowness to judgement as
    being slack..because one day "every knee will bow and every tounge confess
    that Jesus is Lord"
  • Nick  - Proof?
    Proof? Seriously? Tell me then what is going to finally prove evolution? If it's
    such a bogus theory why have so many religious leaders, including the Vatican,
    admitted that it is at the very least, "more than a theory." If you are
    waiting for a lizard to sprout wings tomorrow for proof, then you clearly do not
    understand the theory, which is insulting because many skeptics(note I said
    skeptics, not atheists) have read the bible and done our research, yet we're the
    ignorant ones.
  • Nick  - Also
    Was it also your intention to misspell intended?
  • John S.  - You are correct.
    Science has not conclusively proven evolution. In fact, science does not
    conclusively prove anything. It merely makes claims, and then uses experimental
    data to help back them up. When a claim is called a theory, it means that
    scientists have found that there is sufficient evidence that the claim appears
    to be true. BUT it is not proven. Science is all too aware of its own
    fallibility, and scientists must always look critically on their own views. For
    a better discussion of this idea, Feyman's "The pleasure of finding things
    out," holds a wonderful discussion as to the nature of science.

    However, you contention that there is no evidence for evolution does not ring as
    rationally. Please read some of the experiments which seem to support
    evolution. If you can find where they logically go wrong, show me, show the
    world. They will be thrown out as evidence for evolution if you can show that
    the experiment...
  • Glen  - Jordo
    Passive agressive insults are of no use whatsoever! They simply witness to your
    poorness. You and all those just like you are so imprissoned with this notion
    that there is no proof. Your eyes are closed and your ears are deaf. You do
    make a valid point of studying this place. I love seeing how it is manufactured
    and the wealth of inteligence required to place it together. With all the
    fantastically bright people trying to work it out you would be remiss in stating
    that intelligence was not involved in making it. And that which is more
    important than this place; this place that is going to vanish; is the One that
    will keep me when this does. Without Him this place does not exist! He is the
    primary concern for me. Your primary is going to vanish and then you'll be left
    with nothing.
  • Dave  - @ Greg
    Good argument you have there sir! If there was any evidence for YOUR side of the
    argument either it would be almost conclusive. sadly there isnt and your talking
    rubbish anyway so...
  • john blackwell
    yeah why is it our side that is blind and deaf?

    your arguments are based off something you could never test and determine to be
    real.

    why believe something that you cant see a reason for believing?

    have you ever seen god change anything around here, and be able to verify it?

    you are blind and stupid for believing what you cannot back up
  • Glen  - self ridden nonsense
    John Blackwell, well now sounds to me like you ain't riddin' the same pony as me
    brother! See a reason is found in the 10 comandments, yes I have seen God
    change something down hither, and I am living prrof to back it up. Just because
    You cannot see and experience it is the Problem! The resolution to the problem
    is found in conversion and belief in Jesus of Nazareth. The test you seek is
    out of your hands because You refuse to believe. Once you believe the Spirit of
    truth comes to you and guides you in all things. And Johnny boy I am most
    certainly not stupid. Again, name calling only witnesses to your intelligence.
    Thanx.
  • Damned by Glen1  - And so what does...
    ...e-excorsizm prove?
  • Damned by Glen1  - I'll take a stab at it fer ya, G-man!
    I think he was asking how it is that you witness? What method do you use?
    'Witnessing' implys observation. Does the almighty visit you for tea and
    scrumpets?
  • Jim Fortunato  - The Good Fight
    This is such a great idea! The only reason I'd be upset at Ray Comfort is
    because I didn't think of this idea first. My company The Good Fight is hosting
    a jiu-jitsu tournament on November 21st in New Jersey and I'll have about 500
    people attending the event. I'd love to be able to get 500 copies out at my
    tournament. Feel free to send me info on how we can work together on this.
  • jeff
    Who said creationism and evolution were mutually exclusive?
  • UT undergrad  - Come on.
    Obviously that's not true. Do you need an explanation why?
  • Alexander James Hofstetter  - Med student.
    no, because he is using rhetoric in order to convey the fact that there are
    theorists that believe that both evolution and creationism are correct and that
    they both go hand in hand
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