Origin of Species Campaign Enrages Atheists
Origin of Species

An angry backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to stop answering questions about a special edition of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species" he plans to give away on university campuses this fall.

"From now on I will refuse to answer questions about the book or its contents," Comfort said, "because there is such a deep-rooted anger in the atheist world about this publication.

"They desperately want to stop us," he said, "and I don't want to give away any further details regarding the campaign."

Comfort - host of "The Way of the Master" television show with actor Kirk Cameron and head of Bellflower, Calif.-based Living Waters ministry - is preparing a campaign Nov. 19 with Cameron to mark the 150th anniversary of "Origin of Species." They plan to distribute 120,000 copies of a special edition of Darwin's seminal book on 100 of the top university campuses across the nation.

They will be assisted by a few thousand volunteers, said Comfort, who wrote a 50-page introduction in which he says he provided evidence for intelligent design, the theory that the universe and life is the result of an intelligent creator.

Comfort, author of the newly released book "Nothing Created Everything," says atheists have discussed their strategy to combat his "Origin of Species" edition on Richarddawkins.net, the website of popular atheism advocate Richard Dawkins. Comfort dedicated "Nothing Created Everything" to the British biologist.

One post on a forum on Dawkins' website says of the "Origin" campaign: "If this outrages you, then you're not alone. There's something we can do though. We can amass as many of these books as possible, remove the 50 page intro, and then donate perfectly good copies of Origin of Species to schools, libraries, and Goodwill. We can actually make this into something positive."

The atheists are encouraging college students on campuses where the distributions are taking place to get as many copies of the book as they can.

"This is a shameful thing that Kirk Cameron and [Ray Comfort] are doing by altering another person's book in order to push their agenda," the post says. "But we can help to restore the book to how it was intended and keep young minds from being brainwashed by misinformation."

Comfort argues the book has not been altered at all.

"The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot nor tittle will be removed," he said.

Comfort asks, "Besides, if they think my arguments have no merit, why are they so upset? They should actually enjoy the fact that I'm spreading more of my idiotic claims that intelligent students will see right through - that way my stupidity will be that much more apparent."

Comfort pointed out there have here been more than 140 individual publications of "Origin of Species," and many had introductions.

Comfort's introduction contains information from "Everything Created Nothing," which asserts "many scientists actually believe the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything."

He quotes a numbers of scientists making that assertion, including Dawkins.

"That is making them fume, because it shows that their theory is not at all intelligent," Comfort said.

Other atheist forums are calling for book burnings.

"I'm not into burning books, but this one deserves to be," wrote one contributor. "Anyone up for a large bonfire?"

Another warned "efforts at UC Berkeley will be met with unilateral resistance."

The comments sections at Comfort's Youtube.com pages, which are getting hundreds of thousands of views, are filled with hatred, Comfort says.

One atheist wrote, "Seriously, I hate Ray Comfort now. I mean really hate him. He might try and sound polite, and sound like he's just trying to reason with you and that he really cares about you. In reality, he's just trying to make himself feel that he's right. He's also very disrespectful (in a respectful manner) ... I hate Ray Comfort."



Comments (397)
  • Jay  - Problems with the approach part 2
    others", a sense of persecution and victimhood, and striving for group
    purity through rigid dogma and intolerance.\r\n\r\nThis type of
    rigid thinking is exactly what Christ wanted to change when he spent time among
    gentiles, tax collectors and other untouchables.\r\n\r\nHow can
    Mr. Comfort possibly expect to convert a scientific and Atheist mind to Christ
    coming at them with such methods?
  • DJ  - Poor analogy Jay
    Jay, tell me the last time you heard of Christians beheading anyone? Or
    torturing them? Or being suicide bombers? If anyone does that, they cannot name
    the name of Christ. Radical Islam teaches you can go to Heaven by killing
    someone in the name of Jihad. Christianity says do not kill. The same?? I think
    not. By the way, where does Mr. Comfort show "hatred for others"?
  • Jay  - Problems with the approach
    I heard about the book give away on CNN, and was drawn to the website to find a
    point by point attack on Darwin's scientific method, with supporting evidence.



    Mr. Comfort made a remote (and,perhaps unknown to him) allusion to Thomas
    Aquinas' Summa Theoligia, which contains the beautiful, rational, and logical
    Cosmological Arguments for the existence of God.



    Instead of drawing on this existing 800 year old resource, he attacks Darwin in
    an Ad Homemin style, which is most distasteful.



    I perceive that many Atheists do not accept God out of lack of scientific
    evidence(Albert Einstein, et al.), not from some spite driven embrace of immoral
    practices or view points.



    As a Christian, I am deeply turned off and disgusted by the all encompassing
    paranoia and hatefulness found in Fundamentalist Christianity. Like Radical
    Islamists, I see these common traits: membership bound in hatred of "the
    ...
  • Anonymous
    wow...just wow... this is amazing that people can use this information on this
    site and claim that it is evidence FOR God. I mean come on... no physicist is
    saying that there was NOTHING before the big bang...and his concept of a dog
    trying to find a female is laughable... this guy isn't using common sense!
    Simple because some people don't believe in the christian god doesn't mean they
    aren't moral! You think Gandhi is a bad person!?!?! I would rather be down in
    hell (which I don't believe in) with Gandhi than in heaven with any of the
    murderous crusaders or witch burners that claim to be Christians.
  • Bob  - Please spare us your foolish clap-trap!
    A thoughtful person should have no difficulty reconciling evolution and a belief
    in the Creator.

    God's hand and his plan for creation can be clearly seen in the beauty and
    elegance of evolution.

    Use the brain that he gave you for something other than blindly following the
    ignorant and ultimately self-defeating path of absolute creationism

    Bob
  • DJ  - God did not use evolution
    Sorry guys. God and evolution do not mix. Maybe your made-up god does, but the
    God of the Bible created the world in seven days. And according to Genesis, sin
    and death did not enter the world until Eve and the forbidden fruit. In an
    evolutionary timetable, billions of years would have had to pass without death,
    until humans (Adam) evolved, therefore making evolution and the God of the Bible
    irreconcilable. If you don't believe Genesis, fine. But don't think evolution
    can work with the Biblical account of the beginning.
  • Peter  - Such anger
    As a Christian, it saddens me to see so much seething anger expressed in these
    comments, and none more vituperative than some from those who claim to be from
    the side that above all should be flowing with love and compassion.

    The mistake made by most strict creationists is that they tend to create God in
    their own image. They limit God as to what tools of creation he can and cannot
    use; to what timeline they will allow God to follow. They put God in a very
    small box that looks a lot like them.

    My God is too big for me to define or to limit. Remember that Darwin was
    himself a seminary graduate. He did not deny the existence of God or the
    possibility of intelligent design. Some of his writings and letters include
    Hosannas in praise of creation and God's miracle of evolution that brought it to
    be what it was.
  • Carter
    I understand that your idea of intelligent design is from the idea that a
    superior intelligence could have been responsible for the diversity of life on
    this planet and the existence of humanity.

    That is possible. It may, however, have nothing to do with the bible. We must
    all search for the truth in our own way. Don't force your subjective beliefs
    down the throats of others, declaring that you are right and they are wrong.
    Myopic stalemates reek of failure for all.
  • Carter  - What's next
    What's next, are you going add a disclaimer to the Theory of Relativity, and
    fight for a geocentric model of our solar system to be taught as an alternative
    to heliocentric?
  • brady johnson  - lost
    how can get a copy of Origin of Species?
  • A&M Undergrad  - Laughable at Best
    Your neighbors here in College Station agree. I picked up a copy after reading
    online about the planned book release. His arguments are laughable at best and
    pale in comparison with the scientific rigor that Darwin's theory has endured.
    Mostly his addition personally attacks Darwin's character. Typical of the circa
    1800s ignorance he so graciously included and cited! My only objection to the
    book is its deceitful nature. Comfort could have easily handed out copies of
    his own book, as his introduction is just a series of quick summaries of his
    past work. However, he hid them in a great work of scientific discovery.
    Evolution Theory has come a long way since Darwin. It would have been nice to
    see him argue against one of the newer comprehensive works out there. A good
    look through his citations at the end of the introduction shows that very few
    works on evolution were cited; the ones that were cited were obviously limite...
  • coastalaggie  - FYI
    I do not understand Christians who pick and choose what science they want to
    agree with. News Flash!!!, the same scientific method and process that is used
    to gather the million pieces of data that support evolution is used in vaccine
    development, cancer research, etc. If you do not support evolution then you
    should not support vaccines! In fact you should loath them and picket every flu
    vaccine clinic because guess what. The scientific method based on evolutionary
    processes were used to create that vaccine. In fact, you should be picketing
    every scientific endeavor. But no. You turn your back on science when it
    supports evolution but flock to it when you want medicine. Wake up folks and
    stop turning your brain off. You can support evolution and still be a great
    Christian. If anything, evolution shows just how tremendous God can be.



    Spiritual scientist
  • john oconnor  - Spreading the Message
    Religion is just a fear of mortality.
  • denise
    thank God someone is brave enough to go on to campuses where anything goes and
    confront evil . with the truth of the gospel
  • Tyler  - I got a book!
    So I was blindsided by someone giving out free Origin of Species on campus. I
    already read it once but can
  • Tim Weakley
    Great job Ray, I am shocked that the amount of people offended by a FREE
    book,this book cost the reader nothing. Why are these people so upset about
    something that they say they don't believe in? Could it be that they have doubts
    about there own beliefs. When talking to most of the atheist all I hear is where
    is your proof and here are fifty pages of FACT (and where the information can be
    found) but you still call FACT fiction.





    All of the atheist are welcome to put your own money up to put out any book that
    you would like to give away. Please let us know when and where you will be doing
    this I would like to pick up a copy.
  • John C.  - As long as Darwin's text hasn't been tampered wi
    .... this stunt might actually boost interest in the so-called "new
    atheism." I agree with Comfort that intelligent students are likely to see
    the absurdity of creationist claims when they're juxtaposed with Darwin's
    masterful and inspiring explanation of natural evolution. Don't destroy these
    books, and don't ignore the religious introduction! Read the whole tome, then
    read "The Greatest Show on Earth," Richard Dawkins's new exposition of
    the massive evidence for evolution that has accumulated since Darwin's time.
  • Mike Chesser  - Upset Christian
    Um, I'm Christian and I find offense in tactic of attacking Charles Darwin, a
    noted abolitionist and a brilliant man.

    It is good to see the interest which this book has stimulated, but I fail to see
    how making a connection between Hitler and Darwin furthers things in God's
    Kingdom!?! He was motivated by his desire to show man as having coming from the
    same Person i.e. black, white, everyone in between...

    I will confess that I have not read the Origin of Species, but it's on my todo
    list, just as soon as I finish the OT & NT. Then I'll be able to take an
    objective view of this 'critical' book.

    ... and by the way, I did vote for President Obama!

    "For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."

  • David A. Smith
    Excellant reply, I Couldn't agree with you

    more. Christian / Agnostic
  • Anonymous  - Well Sone on the free giveaway
    Awesome Job!!!
  • Peter Shier  - "Angry Atheists"
    Your main page cites backlash from "angry atheists". I do not agree
    with your position overall and I think subverting Darwin
  • Nelson  - Proverbs 14:25
    "A deceitful witness speaketh lies" Proverbs 14:25. If Mr. Comfort's
    arguments had any validity he wouldn't try to sneak them in through this trojan
    horse of a publication. "He who begins by loving Christianity better than
    truth, will proceed by loving his own sect or church better than Christianity,
    and end in loving himself better than all." - Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I
    suspect Ray Comfort is quite in love with himself.

  • UT undergrad  - Please Christians, chill
    Hello to all. I am a student at the University of Texas at Austin and the other
    day I was blindsided by someone offering me a free Origin of Species. When I
    arrived home, however, I noticed some guy named Ray Comfort wrote a "special
    introduction." "Awesome!" I thought, "Who is this Ray? A
    geologist? A biologist?" No. A Christian preacher (or something like that?).
    Since then, I have been researching everything I can on your group here.

    The most common argument from your side regarding this book seems to be:
    "Let's put both sides out there and if our views are ignorant, then surely
    college students will recognize this and throw our views out." Well guess
    what? The verdict is in and we're casting your arguments aside. I have yet to
    mention this free book giveaway around campus without hearing laughter. WE DON'T
    WANT TO READ YOUR WASTE OF TIME THEOLOGY.

    Please! We are future scient...
  • Dave  - Instead of ridiculing...ask yourself this
    What do you think the Christians' motive is in handing out this book?
  • UT undergrad  - Apparently the message was cut off
    I was saying that we here are future scientists and politicians. We are not
    fooled by your obvious lack of scientific understanding. If you truly believe
    there are NO transitional fossils or that that the mapping of the human genome
    does not aid the theory of evolution then your motives are clear: You are either
    willfully ignorant because you desire peace rather than truth or you actually
    believe you might save us (pun intended) from these heathen professors.

    However you want to spin that, go ahead. But again, please confine your lack of
    reasoning to Sunday school. We're trying to study real events here, not dissect
    magical fairy tales. Thank you.
  • Pastor Kolade Akin  - well done
    You guys are doing a great job. Keep it up and don't allow any intimidation to
    stop you. The lost will be saved.
  • Chris  - No intimidation intended
    Pastor, no intimidation is intended by most people who are critical of what
    Comfort has done here.

    Many Christians and non-Christians both have opinions on the matter, and are not
    trying to threaten with violence or the like.

    Is it a sin for someone to actually use their brain to work things out and come
    to their own conclusions about reality and religion?

    I pray for you. I pray that you see the light someday.

    The lost will be saved.

  • Holly  - Aplogetics
    Good for getting the Gospel out there. I'm glad that there are people in every
    sphere of influence getting the message out, but be careful about too much
    debate. Paul spent most of his time presenting the gospel, not defending it.





    It is "convenient" that we cannot duplicate the beginning of the
    universe... then maybe we would know what happened. But I know, in my life, that
    God has changed me. I have been and am being changed more and more into the
    likeness of of the character of Christ. I see the change in myself. This cannot
    be refuted. My life is proof. The love I have for people is proof. And seeing
    myself 5 years and 10 years ago compared to now is proof.



    Let's not argue about the Gospel. PRESENT it and move on. If people don't want
    to change their mind, they are not going to. It's called free will. Shake the
    dust off of your feet, pray for them, and move on to share with open minds. Or
  • Joseph Gordon  - Deception
    Today I got my copy of this book at my campus. I was not alone in being pleased
    by getting the book, and I was also not alone in being offended when stumbling
    across the introduction of the book, and later on the warning notice posted on
    the back of the title page. The way in which this book was distributed was
    deceptive. Although your name was on the front cover, not everyone knows who
    you are, myself included. This made the distribution deceptive to me, as I was
    not expecting to be reading what I found. I have taken the liberty of watching
    almost every single video posted on this website, from the "Evolution"
    video in which you believe that you have shot down the theory, and even the one
    about Atheism. I have watched several promotional videos about this, and have
    done some research, I even took your "do you think you are a good
    person" quiz, which I am proud to say I have failed on every commandment.
  • Joseph Gordon  - Deception Part 2
    Being a good person is different than following the ten commandments, and it
    should be addressed. I am not saying that if you follow the commandments you
    aren't a good person, but I am saying that just because you don't follow the
    commandments it means you cant be a good person. You should really specify that
    there is a difference between a good person and someone who is a good person in
    the name of God. I am not saying you are wrong in believing in God, however I
    am saying it is immoral to distribute information under the mask of an opposing
    viewpoint. If you really do believe in God, you shouldn't be hiding in the mask
    of Atheism.

    Also, not all atheists think they know everything, and you shouldn't assume you
    are correct either. Just because you feel you have proof of God, that is just
    1% of all of the knowledge in existence. How do you know that in the remaining
    99% there aren't other Gods, or that maybe God is ta...
  • K. Allen
    considering that atheists surround our public schooled children with their
    beliefs on a daily basis. If not by directly stating them then by omission of
    any biblical teachings. I think this book is a great way to put forward the
    views opposing Darwins THEORIES. Theory in its definition is not fact so those
    who want only proven facts must also throw out evolution. there are lots more
    facts supporting creationism than evolution. Just take a moment and think if
    the fittest always survived then why are there; after thousands of years; still
    weak species and dominant ones. This book is presented under the assumption
    that everyone knows what Darwin's theories are but not everyone has been exposed
    to the bible's explanation of creation. Therefor the text presenting the
    Christian views is bigger than Darwin's text. Also, considering the amount of
    evidence supporting the bible as a true document and the lack of evidence
    prov...
  • Nick  - Yes....?
    ...Archaeology is a science. What's your point?
    Yeah those fact things, we tend to like those when stating our opinions as to
    avoid sounding ignorant.
  • Glen  - My point
    Is you are completely ingnorant of what the ten comandments are for and why
    Jesus came. Archeaology is a science used to discover achient artifacts and
    cultural remains. Isreali antiquities authority regularly uncovers cities,
    synagogues and other tidy little tidbits supporting what is written in the
    bible. Again those pesky little factoids. I would rather sound ignorant to you
    though. And I take it as a complement. Thank you!
  • Amber  - Thanks Ray!
    I just wanted to say thanks to Ray for providing us with 1,000 books to hand
    out..we prayed about how we would get the books and God came through like
    always..keep doing what you do!
  • Dan  - "Like always"???
    Amber, are you saying that everything you pray for is always delivered? If it is
    not than your saying that ..."God came through like always..." is pretty
    much not true.
  • Tina  - My sentiments exactly
    You hit this on the nose, what is every one so offended about, are those getting
    this book so afraid that the truth will hit them square between the eyes, and it
    will set them free. What happens to being open minded? I guess that only comes
    into play unless it is your own belief system!
  • Nick  - Cornell
    As a Cornell student, I can't wait to find these people today and get my copy.
    I'm sure if nothing else it will be an interesting discussion
  • Allen MacNeill  - Comforting Creationists Wimped Out at Cornell
    Sorry, Nick, but apparently no creationists showed up at Cornell to pass out
    their abridged copy of the Origin of Species with Ray Comfort's mendacious
    introduction. By the way, Ray is lying when he says the entire Origin is
    available in his bastardized version. On the contrary, he's apparently cut out
    those chapters that have proven most inconvenient for creationists in the past.
    And, he's added a fifty-page "introduction" that's filled with laughably
    inaccurate so-called "arguments" against the content of Darwin's
    masterpiece.

    So, why did Ray's minions wimp out at Cornell? Maybe because Cornell is
    well-known for being the Ivy League university most dedicated to the principles
    of modern science, including evolutionary biology. Or maybe because Ray's
    followers were discomfited by our ever-present November rainfall...
  • JayBird632  - Whats the problem
    I'm wondering what all the commotion is about? If the information in the
    introduction really is as stupid, simple hogwash as you all claim, then no one
    will believe it....right?

    Let these books go out there and Let People Decide For Themselves...!

  • Allen  - Please, quit quoting the Bible
    Please, when discussing scientific theories (i.e. "facts" for the
    layperson), don't quote the Bible. It is NOT a scientific document, and there
    was no scientific method validating it's claims. Furthermore, the Bible ALSO
    says:

    (I Timothy 2:11)
  • Glen  - Quoting the bible
    NO! Your authority is not valid and I will quote it when needed. And so what
    about the First Tim cherry picking? Dig deal! As far as sceintific methods
    validating its claims...is archeaology a scientific field? Facts, Facts. Gotta
    have facts. Sounds like a song.
  • mike  - Copy of the book


    I am a student in Chicago and would like a copy of this book if possible. Please
    e-mail me at mikezapata (at) hotmail.com if you are able to send one. Of course,
    I would pay for shipping/handling. Thanks
  • Kara  - Fantastic Idea, Unwise Implementation
    This idea was fantastic. However, doing an abridged version was most unwise,
    and has made Christians appear dumber. Now people are saying that the parts
    that were cut out are the parts that could be used against Christians.
  • Doyle  - This is a failure
    So I'm in school right now, learning about anthropology. I was walking from
    class to the library today, and someone handed me a book. I looked at it, and
    saw that it was Darwin, and I thought, "Oh wow, free book." I was
    wanting to have a copy of it anyway, since it would be good for me to read it
    for my schooling. I started looking through it, and found that the introduction
    at the beginning was extremely biased towards Christianity. Interesting, I
    thought. The views and facts as they present them were interesting enough, and
    I'm not labeling those as fallacies, but come on. What a disrespectful thing to
    do. using someone else's work to get people to read your own... And really, how
    many times does that "special note" by Ray need to be in there? Another
    disrespectful atrocity they committed with this book was they made the print of
    the text of their portion of it regular sized, but the print of the text...
  • T.M.  - Want to witness to your faith? Feed people.
    This is such a catastrophic waste of resources.



    If this much money and effort were put into feeding and clothing people, you'd
    have done something for the Kingdom.
  • U of U Student  - waste of paper
    most students who received this book at my university today were extremely upset
    with being misled and being handed a "trojan horse". so, they just
    threw it away. I understand wanting to get your views out... but isn't there a
    better way to go about it? maybe a way that people aren't tricked into thinking
    it's something it's not?

  • A  - To be quite fair...
    Personally NOBODY should put much stock into debates period. As most debates are
    simply intellectual gladiator fightings that BOTH sides render the other side to
    be FOOLISH! and IRRATIONAL! Not even documentaries! (although one I've seen to
    be okay) You personally should STOP being lazy watching documentaries with
    slighted information and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! Exploring IN DEPTH BOTH SIDES of
    the argument. Come to your OWN CONCLUSION! Quit being scared of information
    that might change your life! Although i suggest come to your conclusion or re
    examine your conclusion in taking your time in doing so. If you are not willing
    to do this or havent done this YOUR NOT SINCERE in what you believe. YOU HAVE
    COPED OUT! DONT be a COP OUT! Take a step out of your comfort zone and read some
    opposing viewpoints giving them the benefit of the doubt. You just might find
    that trusting the Bible isn't so unreasonable.
  • Glen  - Trust..
    "...Trusting the bible (God) isn't so unreasonable." Wrong Sister!
    Trusting God is the only way! Wordy docs to get to the point of the falsehood
    does not negate the falsehood.
  • Roy  - Wut
    I do believe that what was meant that you can trust the Bible while
    simultaneously believe in evolution. And interesting standpoint would be such as
    though that God had created everything, and had intended for mankind to be in
    his image, he decided to allow us to explore scientific knowledge in that
    evolution was created for us to study. We would be able to trace back our
    evolution into the current state we are in, which was God's intention, to what
    we used to be. This, in turn, would give us the freedom to study all things that
    God had created in order to be closer to him. It isn't truly that far-fetched to
    believe in evolution while simultaneously believing in a God, but my lack of
    faith stems from other things that have nothing to do with evolution.
  • Glen  - Deluded
    Roy, God did not intend for to be in His image. We were created In His Image.
    There is no coming into His image nor is there a progressive move by site
    mutaion in our DNA's away from what You think He Intended. Your thinking is
    crooked. I have to say I don't know if this teaching about beleiving in both is
    a salvation issue, but I have a feeling it have to do with calling God a liar.
    If He says I created everything just the way it is and we (humans) say no
    everything has been changing into something else for millions of years it makes
    God out to be a liar. And that is wrong! Soory to hear about your lack of
    Faith. I'll say a quick prayer for you.
  • A  - Wrong brother!
    If you cant trust the Bible to be accurate in what it says what makes YOU think
    it can teach you anything about God reliably? You have to trust that the
    scripture is reliable before you come to faith in God. Rom 10:17 So then faith
    cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. You need to read your Bible
    brother!
  • Dan  - On the contrary.
    Trusting the bible is exactly unreasonable. To trust something with no proof in
    favor, and much proof against, is the absolute definition of unreasonable.
  • DJ  - Sorry, no deception.
    It's not deception. Once Living Waters (recently) decided to go out on different
    days other than just the 19th, they stopped saying the 19th. With thousands (no
    exaggeration) of news outlets already stating just the 19th (of which there are
    dozens of Universities still scheduled to receive books), there would be no way
    to tell them all, "oh by the way, it's not just the 19th anymore . . ."
    so they didn't do it. And unless you believe in a worldview of absolute
    morality, you have claim against the ministry anyway.
  • Jolyon Johnson  - As a Christian
    Most of what I would say has likely been said. Thus, I would just like to say
    that as a Christian I am sad to see such immoral misrepresentation of a
    scientific document. The introduction is in huge font and has big pictures and
    subheadings while the original text is in tiny font and chapters do not even
    start on a new page. Christians are supposed to be leaders in ethics.
  • DJ  - Joylon
    I can think of two reasons right off the top of my head. First, atheists would
    be outraged if there was no distinction between the intro and the actual text.
    Also, Darwin could have provided pictures in his original but chose not to (or
    could not). Also, I can only imagine the costs of producing this many copies of
    the book and I'm sure the font size was needed to bring the page count down.
    From my experience, the more pages of book, the higher the cost.
  • Concern Case Western Student  - Unfair Argument
    I admit I am quite surprised at how clever this ploy was. Putting a biased
    introduction before the Origin of Species was really clever. However what was
    not clever was critiquing an out of date scientific argument in an attempt to
    make the current version of the theory look stupid. It will work on the feeble
    minded but those who actually look at things objectively will not be duped.

    Secondly, the flow of all of these books onto the Case Campus has put unneeded
    strain on our recycling services. Several recycling bins are full, almost
    entirely filled with copies of this book. Please don't waste so much paper and
    make the lives of our custodial staff more difficult than it already is.

  • Joseph Gordon  - Really?
    I mean I saw a lot of them filling up, but I didn't see any overflowing today.
    They were really a hazard handing them out on Euclid, saw someone almost get hit
    by a car because of it.
  • Glen  - out of date??
    Now you're talking! Evolution is nost certainly out of date! Good observation
    Kid! As for feelble minded...no so fast you little wipper snapper! I'll have
    you know...Hee hee I am just so overwhelmed by the mightly intellect that must
    denegrate the oposing party just so they are now equal. This indicates to me
    that the oposing party is above the one performing the belittling. Good to be
    on top! Thanx for the teastimony Sister or bother...whatever!
  • Roy  - Wut
    Quite honestly, this would have been a good idea with a different book. There
    are many idiots on both sides of every argument, sure, that much is known to be
    true by everyone. There is, however, a variable not taken into consideration
    when writing the intro to this. It is that there would be massive hate directed
    to the author of the introduction. Sure, I may be atheist, but I do not line up
    with the idiots who go with the book burning or anything of the like. Yeah, I
    don't like it, but so what? If you're truly atheist, just live with it. Life is
    too short to hate anything or anyone, anyways.
  • Jess Boling  - Handing out Books Before Announced Date at UCI
    I'm a student at UCI and I have to comment that it is particularly cowardly for
    whichever group that was going to pass these books out at UCI to announce one
    date and then pass them out on another.

    Going to the booth the people handing them out did in no way mention the
    religious content of the introduction, and UCI students were told to, quote,
    "use it in your science class".

    Luckily there were people there to clear up any confusion and explain to people
    that Ray Comfort knows less about the domestic history of the Banana than he
    does about biology. Thankfully the ordained priest and world renowned biologist
    Francisco Ayala is a part of the faculty at UCI and may clear up any confusions
    about evolution Ray will create:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_J._Ayala

    Please take all the credit for handing out these books Ray, it only strengthens
    the perception that you know absolutely nothing ...
  • DJ  - Regarding date change
    The date was set for November 19th and then ramping up toward it, it was
    determined that the 18th was a better day. If your sources did not update you to
    the change, then you need to find better sources. Irregardless, the date was not
    the reason for the giveaway but the book itself so it's a moot point unless
    someone was planning a censorship disruption such as a book burning or tearing
    out the introduction which was encouraged by Richard Dawkins.
  • Debbie  - No information was forthcoming regarding date chan
    Since Ray Comfort's ministry was responsible for setting the date, and many
    groups have made numerous attempts to be aware of the date, let's just call it
    what it is: deception!

    The idea that we should or could find "better sources" than Ray Comfort
    or Living Waters is trying to hide from the truth.

    The idea of being present at the book give-away was to offer an alternative
    point of view. Similar to what Intelligent Design fans are requesting in our
    public schools. If it's good enough for I.D., then isn't it good enough for
    everyone else?
  • Lynn Wilhelm  - Irregardless...NOT
    Fix your grammar, please. Irregardless is not a word (it is, however, a great
    restaurant in Raleigh, NC). The word should be regardless. If you are so
    concerned about education you should use correct grammar.
  • Derek Smith  - congratulations
    I don't know why you would think that people who study the sciences would fall
    for your trickery when you released a book trying to counter the findings that
    go against your ideology. I'm sure that if Darwin was alive today he would have
    not allowed for you to release such crap. Your introduction is ridiculous,
    Darwin wrote "The Origin of Species" to express his findings, not to
    spread his ideas...there is a difference. Luckily for me I can rip your intro
    out and still have an unaltered (hopefully) version of Darwin's work. Thanks
    for the free book.
  • Student  - After Reading Your Introduction
    I got your book for free today on my campus. I was excited b/c I thought that
    someone was finally standing up to the religious wackos that show up all the
    time. Apparently I was wrong. I was reading the introduction and I was stunned
    by all of the simplification and exaggeration used to try and make a point. It
    was really ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone who is well informed
    about the standing of the theory of evolution in the scientific community could
    be convinced of anything by it. It is well known that evolution is widely
    accepted by scientists and the highly educated. Quoting a few people with doubts
    about small parts of the theory does not make the theory false, and it does not
    make its broad acceptance false either. Those who believe in the theory do so
    because of the strong evidence that they can personally investigate, not because
    they are just being told to believe it by others. Therefore, you should have ...
  • mnevins987  - Highly Educated?
    The Bible says; Ye that does not beleive in God is a fool.
  • Jonathan  - I think the title of this article should be change
    Origin of Species Campaign Enrages humanity.
  • Glen  - Man's decline
    Dan, all you have done is speak about mans ability to improve technology. Humans
    are exactly the same or as this line is suggesting worse than anytime before.
    You have said something about slavery...check it out. There is more sex slavery
    right now than any other type of slavery. These girls are horribly treated.
    Equality is also not a good issue due to the Arab countries restricting women in
    horrible ways. They will even beat them for being raped! In Africa women are
    nothing. Now let us look at the civil massacres and genocidal sweeps in Africa.
    Oh yes you limited your observations to the First-world orders. Let us not look
    at the truth.
  • Austin  - Fun
    Because the people reading this are either illogical or (I really liked this
    word) pedantic, I would like to share an excerpt from Shakespeare:

    Out, out, brief candle!
    Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more: it is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    And here, in this simple space, is reason.
  • Glen  - Me thinks someone just learned a new word!
    Austin, hey guy. Pedantic just makes me laugh out loud. Especially those
    holding to the idea that there is no God. After all I was charged with being
    pedantic further down in the posts. As far as illogical is concerned. Whatever
    buddy. Name calling is the best you can do?



    g
  • Kevin F.  - Atheists Enraged?
    As an atheist and scientist I'm not enraged at all. If anything, maybe a little
    sad. Religion will die because it ignores fact and reality. The lies of Comfort
    etc become clear eventually (like earth in center of universe) and expose
    religion for the fraud it is.

    I'm getting a copy of the book on my campus tomorrow. We call it the
    "collectors' edition". Comfort's amendment is wonderful example of
    distortion of science and outright lies. I am glad that it is being
    distributed, not enraged.

    I came to this website to find out where I can get my free copy on campus.
  • Bryan  - Penn State
    I understand there are going to be copies handed out at Penn State Main Campus.
    Unforutnately for me I do not go to main campus, but one of the sattelite
    campus's instead. I have a friend who can pick me up a copy but she would like
    to know where exactly on Main Campus it is going to be distributed at
  • j  - Where Do Morals Come from???
    continued....

    Today morality without God is used as the trump card against religion. I believe
    Dawkins, Hitchens , and others to be moral men. They are probably better than
    most Christians. My non believing friends are more moral than some of my
    Christian friends(and they are not considered by anyone to be "bad"
    christians. Although their case is made, their point is not! To me anyway. The
    Bible is clear that gentiles (non jews) having NOT the law (law of Moses) do by
    NATURE the things that are contained in the law. Romans 2:14-15 LOOK IT UP! The
    point is its a natural thing for gentiles like dawkins and hitchens and others
    to do the law because God has written it in thier hearts. But you say not
    everybody is good as the laws to be. Thats where sin trumps us. We are weak
    towards sin. So much so that no one cannot not sin.
  • j  - Where do morals come from???
    The question of where we get our morals from is a good question to ask.
    Depending on who you talk to you will get a different answer, Christians will
    say the ten commandments almost parrotlike. Non-Christians will say society,
    family, etc. Not the Bible (although some might say). I say its a good question
    because it raises a valid point to me anyway. The ten commandments weren't given
    until Moses came around. There is evidence of law predating Moses by Hammurabi.
    Think about it Christians. Adam, Noah, Joesph, Abraham did not have the ten
    commandments! The Bible doesnt give evidence that they did. To assume some sort
    of ten commandments given would be to jump outside the text of the Bible.
  • Rich
    LAB-
    If there was a god, anyone believing in him because of pascal's wager would
    surely go to hell. Believing in god because it's better than nothing sort of
    defeats the point of faith and belief.

    Oh, and the question of religion is a legitimate concern as well, assuming that
    god gives credit for lip service.
  • Glen  - What?
    I would like it if you were a little more vague. Then no one would even know
    what it is your are trying to say. As it is any simplton could grasp this.

    So, what do you say is the point of Faith and Belief?

    and What question concerning religion are you refering too?
  • Rich  - I sincerely doubt
    that any form of evidence or proof would convince 'Glen' here of anything and
    earlier he (or she, albeit less likely) that the bible is not 100% true.

    Therefore, why is there the urge to tear down this theory?

    Science should be covered by the realm of science. That involves generating
    hypotheses and testing them to find out if they are true. That is not possible
    with religion. Religion cannot generate anything that we can test. Evolution
    is a theory in that it is supported by current evidence even though we are not
    strictly able to test it at this time. Theoretically, at some point in time we
    might be able to replicate conditions or perhaps even abiogenesis, the creation
    of life from non-living materials. Strictly speaking though, all that is
    required to disprove evolution is ONE fossil.

    Creationists should not act hurt and surprised when their beliefs are ignored
    and tossed aside by the scientific c...
  • Glen  - 100%
    I think an error was made in the first sentence. But I want to state
    unequivically that I not only beleive but know the accounts in the Bible are
    100% real and true. There is no fasle hood in God. Rich, your statements about
    me being convinced of anything are fallacious and a personal attack. I want to
    thank you for it. It simply demonstraates that I don't belong in this world;
    that I have already been set apart. Thanx again for your witness. As for
    interpratation of data I can hold my own thank you very much. The one that
    cannot be convinced is you! Bye-bye.
  • Tray
    Wow Glen: "But I want to state
    unequivically that I not only beleive but know the accounts in the Bible are
    100% real and true. There is no fasle hood in God."
    There's another quote I like: "Ignorance more often begets confidence than
    does knowledge."
    Oh, that quote is from Charles Darwin by the way.
  • Glen  - So?!?!?
    Tray, glad you like the quotes. So What?

  • Anne  - Got book, read intro, good stuff!!
    Got my book and it is at my father-in-law's house:). What God does with that is
    His will:).I am excited about it though and know He's working in his heart:). I
    read the intro to the book and I think it was well written and there are no
    personal attacks of any kind. (I would be surprised if there were coming from
    Ray:)). In Darwin's own words, he doubted evolution seriously when considering
    the complexity of the human eye. He also noted that african americans were
    closer to the gorilla, which sounds like racist classification to me. I mean,
    how does one come to that conclusion without being racist? Putting races in
    classes as Darwin seems to have done, is just wrong. That is saying one race is
    superior to the other and I have to say..that's just nonsense. I never believed
    evolution, even when I didn't believe in God. It just seemed silly and my
    instincts(my God- given conscience) were telling me that something was just
    reall...
  • Arjun C  - hi
    is there a list of universities where the book will be handed out?
    "top 100" is subjective
  • SB  - Challenge: How about distributing a modern evolut
    Kudo's for distributing the Origin of Species, ableit with religious propaganda
    preceeding it. However it is a 150 year old book that only set the stage for
    extensive research on biogeography, development, and genetics that have followed
    since. The Origin is written in a style that is probably not approachable by
    many, and cannot accurately reflect the current state of our understanding. I
    challenge Living Waters to distribute a modern text such as "Why evolution
    is true" by Jerry Coyne, and to come up with arguments against each of the
    points in that book. Sadly, this challenge is not likely to be taken.
  • see Michael Langan  - SB: your challenge has been answered already?
    by C. Michael Langan and others in a book of essays and papers callend
    "Uncommon Dissent".



    It is a few years old now and so not up to the minute, but if you are really
    interested in the explanatory deficiencies of evolutional theories, it is a good
    place to start.

    I wonder also if y'all who oppose this are not getting upset defending claims
    that neither Darwin nor modern research make? What does evolutionary science
    have to say about how and why life began in the first instance, or why it just
    happened to have some encoding allowing it to adapt to its surroundings?

    whatever happened to the gentleness and tolerance of hte humanist spirit? oh
    yeah, every page of human history bespeaks our evil. i forgot. LOL. Dawkins for
    Chairman of the next French Revolution implementation Committee.
  • Ryan  - Books given away at my university
    Hello all,
    Someone came to our University yesterday hauling boxes full of the books. The
    lady distributing ignored us when we asked what organization she was affiliated
    with and she quickly left when we asked if she had a permit. She was not
    outside, but going through our buildings and handing out the books. After
    reading the fifty page introduction, I found much of it to be opinion presented
    as fact. The hasty generalizations about other world religions really saddened
    me. I am a christian and I love God. I wish people didn't tarnish the already
    negative view creationism already has by spilling their slander and opinion all
    over our college campuses with books like these. If you are going to present an
    argument for creationism, an introduction for a book is a bad place to do it.

    The book distribution at our campus overall was very poorly received. Most
    students felt like they were being scammed because the free Origi...
  • EJV  - Never seen a Christian?
    For all of you out there who've never seen a Christian--



    Two things--



    You obviously do not know what a Christian is, and you support the Biblical
    teaching that "all have sinned." Christians sin, are saved by grace and
    are going through a process of transformation that takes a lifetime. Do not
    judge the veracity of the Christian message by basing your views on fallible
    man. Honestly give yourself to Jesus and you will find Him to be faithful and
    will show you the love that you so long for.



  • DaveH  - You haven't read it, Ray.
    That's what annoys me. You haven't read the book you're writing an intro for. Or
    if you have read it, you certainly haven't understood it. Not even the basics.

    How else could you ask people, in one of your latest videos, whether the
    creature that humans evolved into was a man or a woman?

    Not much better is the question whether the creatures that moved from sea to
    land had gills or lungs. Have you heard of amphibians?

  • James  - God will reward you guys.
    Man I love Ray and Kirk! God loves Ray and Kirk! They stick their neck out
    constantly to expose the sins of the world, and, just like Jesus said, they are
    being persecuted for Him. It says in the Bible, if you act like Jesus, they'll
    treat you like they treated Him. However, the reward in Heaven for suffering for
    Christ is neverending. I know these scientific personalities enjoy talking
    about how smart they are and how they use their "reason". The Bible
    says the exalted will be brought low and the lowly will be exalted. Pride is a
    poison in God's eyes. However, the devil runs the earth and the majority of the
    people follow him.
  • Pete  - hey Glen
    I have one word for you "HORUS" please google it and read how he was
    around thousands of years before Jesus and somehow its the same story just diff
    names

    both born to a virgan, both had fathers and mothers of the same name, died and
    was rezed 3 days later. ect ect

    there are i belive 2 other gods with the same stories.

    truth is the people who wrote the bible didnt even know jesus,never met him and
    was wrote 40 to 100 years after he died.
  • Glen  - Pete
    Poor, poor Pete. Always learning but never knowing. You are not of Jesus'
    flock so you'll never accknowledge the truth because you don't hear His voice.
    I will not google your idol. I have zero desire to be decieved by the evil one.
    I have come out of that bondage and I am not going back. I will ask for the
    Father to draw you but it entirely up to Him. He is Soverign and He knows
    everything about you; even if you are to be His child. So should I ask for you
    He may say, "I am sorry, Glen. Pete is of no account.". He may also
    say, "This thing you have asked me I will do because you (glen) are an
    intimate friend and have found favor with Me.". In either case I turn my
    face to Him in hopes that I get to hear Him say, "...you are an intimate
    friend and you have found favor with Me.".
  • Torrie  - Glen
    wow, i feel so sorry for humans who will never know the true beauty of the earth
    and the purpose for being here. back in the 70s, they used to send people to
    psychologists to get deprogrammed from being brainwashed in a cult. all
    religious people need this badly. that guy who wrote about the god Horus is
    correct, and there were many more like jesus/god, prior. but i think the real
    conversion/deprogramming will take place over time and it will come from
    atheists getting the bible scripture out there. as the saying goes: the
    quickest way to turn someone atheist is have them read the bible. i am reading
    it now and wish i'd have done so years ago, i could have became an atheist that
    much faster and saved myself all the pain of believing in a skydaddy that isn't
    there and feeling guilty about being an animal that lives and dies. rare is a
    christian who has read the bible, and i don't mean just the new testament.
    while th...
  • Torrie  - Remainder of truncated post
    while there are plenty of disgusting things in the new testament (which was
    written over 30 yrs after jesus' death, btw) the old testament is absolutely
    atrocious. some christians go to church and have some idiot preacher cherry
    pick all the nice passages so they can all pretend the bible is a nice book.
    facts are facts. read it for yourself and see. humans are so weird, they hate
    the fact they are going to die, so they make up things or believe things that
    someone else made up. then, they panic and tell everyone about their made up
    stuff as if it is real and dire and they chastise others, ridicule them, try to
    guilt them into thinking they are bad people and need saving from an invisible
    sky god that there is no scientific evidence for. wow! i feel sorry for humans
    who never get to do much more with their brains than occasionally take them out
    to play with them. sad.
  • Glen  - Wow
    Torrie do you feel better? I am very glad you got all that hate out of
    yourself. Now how much of the crazy stuff in the OT is caused by the humans and
    how much by God? God appears occasionally to trusted people to set them
    straight. To witness against the people. Torrie, Scietists cherry pick stuff
    all the time so that is an ineffective tact. There ias abundant scientific
    evidence for the existance of God just becuase you refuse to see it is the
    underlying problem for you. And I feel sorry for humans that only use thier
    brains to believe what they are told to believe so long as it does not contain
    the word GOD. Okay so name calling over got anything important to say.
  • Robbie Lester  - Apologetics-An Intelligent Defense of Faith
    It is amazing how I have seen so many posts on this Christian website about how
    stupid it is to believe in God. Well, I am here to say that the Christian faith
    is very much an intelligent faith, one based in fact. If you would like to hear
    an intelligent defense of the Christian faith, why don't you pick up a couple of
    books by Josh McDowell, a former atheist (who graduated at the top of his class
    by the way), who was actually saved by God while trying to disprove the Bible's
    authenticity. Also, if you think that Christians are unintelligent (most
    college students think everyone other than themselves are less intelligent
    because they attended a couple of courses), please take a listen to James White.
    This man would walk over you in any debate. I say that not to berate you, but
    to encourage you to seek out knowledge and let that pursuit guide you. As you
    do this, you will undoubtedly end at God being the only way. There is ...
  • Glen  - Torrie
    Hello Torrie. I am so glad to hear you are reading the Bible I have read it
    front to back and Have found God to be very real. It is not a cult, honey.
    Jesus is who he says He is and you get the opportunity to either accept Him or
    reject Him. It is now your call. But remember one thing He calls you not the
    other way around. I will ask that He call you so that you will know who He is.
    Then if you reject Him it is your own fault. Only people who's consciences are
    seared don't feel guilt for inappropriate behaviors. They are called
    sociopaths. Sorry your the rest of your comments were chopped off.
  • john blackwell  - glen
    choosing not to look at evidence and consider it is choosing to be stupid.

    why is the bible the thing you choose to believe blindly?

    if its really the word of god, then any argument brought against it should be
    able to be refuted.

    is god not all powerful?
  • Glen  - More
    John Blackwell, to your angst, God is all powerful. He has demonstrated it by
    the act of becoming one of us. You don't accept that teastimony so you require
    more. I don't choose to be stupid John. I have not chosen to ignor evidence.
    And I am certainly not stupid. I am really about average, maybe upper average
    in intelligence. So that you have been told, God has already refuted every
    excuse you can make. His actions and His power have done that. Your rejection
    of Him is the problem Not that you charge me with being stupid. I will accept
    the charge if you will believe in Jesus of Nazareth!
  • Anonymous
    hey dude, so i agree with you but, when you talk to retards, like religious
    fundamentalists you have yo use proper grammar and stuff. either youre 12 or you
    really dont speak english well. please! please! please! do not bring out side
    down with horrible grammar and syntax.
  • Anonymous
    I find it hilarious that you would call other people idiots and chastise
    someone's grammar without using capital letters and spelling errors.

    To be more on point, Glen, you could have actually refuted that point since some
    religions did not turn out Jesus-type individuals after the New Testament.
    However, you choose to be close-minded and ignorant. Do everyone a favor and
    don't post if you have nothing to add to a conversation.
  • Glen  - Annonymous
    Must have been tough growing up with that name? Maybe that is why you are such
    a grouch. Thanx for telling me what to do. Clearly I could not manage wothout
    you. You are the best! I will do everyone a favor and post as many times as I
    see fit! You are no body! as your name suggests. Your words are equally
    vacant. I was niether closed minded or ignorant. It is your emptyness that
    shines through.
  • Est
    Hmmmm...googled Horus...doesn't nearly have the same story as Jesus.
  • Mikolaj Habryn  - A Special Introduction to the Bible
    Hi Ray!

    Congratulations on this project - it is a revolutionary idea, and has, I think,
    amazing potential for breaking the communications logjam between people of
    differing backgrounds and opinions.

    Following your lead, I've taken the liberty of drafting a similar "Special
    Introduction" for the Bible, and have just published a first draft of it for
    review at http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgz9c3n9_20f2gvnddk

    Since my introduction is intended to be easy for people to print and insert into
    as many Bibles as they have access to, it is much smaller and simpler than
    yours, but I ought confess that I drew inspiration from more than just your
    idea. In fact, I chose to follow the structure and style of your introduction
    very closely, and I'd like to give you due credit for providing such an
    excellent model.

    I'm concerned that you or others might see this as being crude humour, parody,
    or s...
  • Mikolaj Habryn  - remainder of truncated post:
    I'm concerned that you or others might see this as being crude humour, parody,
    or satire, and I'd like to reassure you that it isn't intended in that way at
    all. It is my greatest hope that this introduction will find it way into as many
    Bibles as possible, throughout homes, hotels and libraries, to inform, educate,
    and build stronger and more rational faith throughout the world, a goal that I
    know you feel as strongly about as I do.

    I intend to have a complete version of this special introduction ready for your
    launch on Thursday, and though there are not likely to be any new Bibles
    pre-printed with it before that day, I trust that the same spirit that underpins
    your distribution of Origin of Species will encourage all the people of the
    world to insert this introduction into the Bibles that already exist.

    Sincerely,
    Mikolaj Habryn
  • Perry Chason
    So you admit Origin of Species is your and other atheists' equivalence to the
    Holy Bible? Spectacular. And you say atheism is not a religion...
  • greg  - The fool hath said...
    Thank u for your work Ray..We pray God's blessing on the distribution of the
    truth... Do not be discouraged, # 2 Peter 3:3
    Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking
    after their own lusts,
    2 Peter 3:2-4 (in Context) 2 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
  • Arelly Bradley
    A couple of people and I will be distributing these books tomorrow in England!
    Please pray for us! To God be the glory!
  • Robin  - Arelly Bradely
    Hi

    can you disclose the area where you will be disrtibuting these books?

    Are you somewhere in the North East if then you can have a volunteer.
  • Anne  - Will be giving this to my future father-in-law/pro
    Thank you Kirk and Ray for being such bold evangelists for God's kingdom:). I
    just bought a copy and will be giving this to my future father-in-law who is a
    doctor/professor. Like many college grads he believes in evolution but with
    prayer and witnessing, hopefully that will change. I have faith that it will:).
    God can change the hardest of hearts..He changed mine. If any Christian reads
    this post, please pray for him:). "With God all things are possible." I
    will continue to pray for this outreach and will be praying Nov. 19. I know this
    outreach will turn many to the Truth of Christ! Your reward will be great in
    heaven:). God bless you guys!



    "If God is for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:31

  • Curtis  - Believers vs non-believers
    The problem with these two disparate groups is that they both have chosen to
    believe in something they have no way to truly know or understand. Evolution is
    flawed and creationism is ridiculous and certainly does nothing to prove the
    existence of it's patron trinity deity. The fight between the two of you is as
    insignificant as two senseless beings arguing over which direction the sun
    rises. For your own sanity I suggest you both stop believing, although my
    entertainment at your expense shall surely be interrupted by such change.
  • Happy Chap
    Atheism is the right way to go!!! It is not blocked by stupid unbelievable
    religious fascists who believe in an unproved God and diluted morals!!! Atheist
    is the way for life!!!You are able to believe what you wish and are not
    controlled by medieval values!!!
  • mnevins987  - You are so Sad
    I will pray for you. You may not like it but I will anway. And the thing is
    this, there is nothing you can do about it. I will look on your face on
    Judgement Day, when you are standing there nakid and shivering with fear of the
    All Mighty God as He passes sentance. What a shame.
  • Common Sense  -  blindly believe
    Who wouldn't believe a "virgin" gave birth to god's son, who could turn
    water to wine, walk on water, heal leprosy, and oh ya,come back from the dead.
    This Darwin guy with all his research, who's he trying to fool. Theory of
    Evolution, He's just like that Isaac Newton with his crazy theory of gravity!
    I'm sure they are both burning in Hell! Hey, any body want to go stone some
    non-believers? praise the lord!
  • robert  - learn how to spell
    you make his point you do fit into the lower iq section lol!
  • Glen  - Hi-larry-yous
    Spelling is a nicely creative sport. Is this very best argument you can fathom?
    I admit that I get into a great big rush, then neglect a proof reading. But hey
    big deal. I simply laugh at myself for the errors. It has zippo to do with
    intelligence. My very first question to such people is, " Did you
    understand it?". If they did then the point is really moot. One is just
    trying to appear greater through arrogance. If one did not understand then one
    ask a question? An intelligent person should demonstrate thier position without
    belitteling the putative lesser.
  • Glenn Drodge  - The attack is not from atheists
    Ray Comfort asks, "Besides, if they think my arguments have no merit, why
    are they so upset? They should actually enjoy the fact that I'm spreading more
    of my idiotic claims that intelligent students will see right through - that way
    my stupidity will be that much more apparent."



    I do enjoy the fact that Ray Comfort is spreading more of his idiotic claims
    around North America, and I do believe that intelligent students will see
    through this nonsense. Religious brainwashing seems to only assemble in the
    lower IQ quartile our society, of which Ray Comfort is a proud member. Thus

    Mr. Comfort is correct
  • Glen  - Nanny, naay, boo, boo.
    The above coment is an extreme example of the highly intellectual members of
    scociety sticking thier necks out by say Nanny, nany, boo, boo. Intellect does
    not resort to name calling and bashing of this sort. It is simply beneath even
    the putative lowwer IQ calls this person claims to be above. See thruth has
    nothing to do with intelligence. In feact the opposite is true. The hihg the
    intelligence the greater the doubt facter. Unbelief in God's testimony is akin
    to calling Him a liar. He is completely Holy, there is no darkness, lie, in
    Him. Glenn, you testify to your own deficiencies.
  • Steve, M. Div  - I see Jesus...
    This is sad. Like two parents yelling at each other while their kids run away.
    800 million people live on less than two dollars a day, homeless people fill our
    streets, children without parents and people without anything or anyone, and
    Christians want to debate evolution. Perhaps we should let God stand up for
    Himself, and start standing up for those we can help. Reading these posts is
    heartbreaking
  • KerryJ  - You feel have to lie and deceive? How UN-Christia
    You're lying and deceiving - you are NOT distributing the original work of
    Charles Darwin - you are distributing YOUR VERSION of it.

    Disgusting. The end doesn't justify the means. What an UN-Christian thing to do.
  • Micah Turner  - you just keep coming back for more
    1.
    "You ... are so imprissoned with this notion
    that there is no proof"

    Didn't you state that there is "no proof" for evolution?

    2.
    First: "Your eyes are closed and your ears are deaf"
    and then:" He is the primary concern for me." As if to say that studying
    about the universe is unimportant.

    Hold yourself up to the same standard you do jordo and read a book, do research,
    actually learn about evolution, astronomy, physics.

    You also seem to imply that the fact that there is no proof is unimportant...!
    As if it's completely outlandish to deny the existence of a benevolent god
    "just because there isn't proof".

    YOUR eyes are closed and YOUR ears are deaf if you just won't loosen up enough
    and stop being too afraid to actually learn something about the universe.
  • Glen  - My My testy aren't we?
    1) No I did not state there is no proof. I stated that you are improsoned by
    your thoughts of no proof. Try again!

    2) As if? How drol! You have comanded this concern not I!

    "Implications of no proof" again is a comanded falsehood from you not
    I.

    Micah Turner, Here I am. Come and get me!
  • Kaylie Wilson  - Do you truly believe?
    I have to wonder, if you truly believe creationism is right, and evolution is
    wrong, why then did you "disguise" your argument in a book about
    evolution? Is it possible you have little faith in you argument and worry the
    general population will disregard it if you were to just write a book about your
    argument? Instead you place an intro into Darwin's book, because perhaps this is
    the only way the world will know what you think. Or maybe, you have no faith at
    all......OR! You really are just trying to **** *** the Atheists!
  • Rick  - K. Wilson - I weep for you!
    You are so quick to jump to arguments that attempt to disprove creationism. As
    Ray and Kirk have directed, they are using the text, The Origin of Species,
    because so many atheists believe "blindly". It is realized that many of
    these people will never even attempt to hear a valid argument against evolution
    unless it is thrown directly in front of them; ergo- Placed in the foreword of
    Darwin's ramshackle lie - which is celebrating its anniversary this month.
  • Tom (Shawano)  - Have you researched yourself??
    Kaylie... Ray has not hidden anything. He has been the author of many books on
    the subject, held debates with known atheists on national television and invites
    any evolutionist or atheist to come to the mic as he open air preaches every
    Saturday at Huntington Beach, California. The books are read by all...Ask
    yourself this... If Ray were to "disguise" his argument, would he and
    those helping, tell the world about the introduction to "Origin of the
    Species" long before it is being given out... hmmmm just a thought! Have a
    wonderful day!
  • Sandra Carlson  - On the fence
    So,
    What do I think about evolution and creationism? I don't know to be honest. Both
    make good points, but both have holes in their theories. Evolutionists still
    haven't proved everything, but how can we when all we're working with are
    fossils and other materials that are hundreds of years in age? But Creationists
    argue God created everything and that's it. But show me your God and I'll
    believe you. Saying this God, which you cannot see you can only believe he/she
    is standing there, would be like if I said "here is an invisible magical
    unicorn that will grant you eternal life if you just accept he/she into your
    life and accept that the Unicorn created everything". You can't see the
    Unicorn, you will never see the Unicorn (until you die that is), you just have
    to BELIEVE it is there. Conveniently, Christianity says you will only see their
    God once you are dead, so if by some chance you don't see this heaven or hell
  • Glen  - Show me!!!
    Philip asked Jesus this very question. Are you aware of that? Word for word.
    Jesus told Philip and the rest of the 12 this very tidbit, "Don't you know
    me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has
    seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'". (John
    14:9) With your example there has never been a mystical unicorn to place belief
    in. Jesus on the other hand has come in the flesh to remove the excuse of
    invisibility, among other things. The One has come. The One has shown Himself.
    The One has placed Himself in the direct path of the power of death and
    concoured it! BTW: Jesus has stated clearly that He will show Himself to those
    that beleive in Him. No waiting child.
  • craig  - soooo
    Every man has been given a measure of faith. I implore you to try. just
    because a billion or so people refuse to believe there is a God doesn't make it
    true. If you lived dowwn stream from a dam and a helicopter landed in your yard
    and said get on board a 30ft. wall of water is bearing down on you. Would you
    say , show me proof or I won't get on board, or I don't need anyone to save
    me((pride). The bible says God resists the proud, we must come to him as a
    little child. This is God's world, just because we don't like the rules or the
    way we think God has handled things won't excuse us when we stand before him.
  • Sara Caldwell  - The Universities involved
    Will the campaign be reaching the campus at the University of Georgia? I am a
    news reporter with the Red&Black at UGA, and I'd like write something about this
    for the students.
  • Jay  - Where can I get one?
    Is there a list of schools they will be at so I can grab one of these books?
  • DAN SWEETING  - THANKS RAY KIRK AND ALSO GLEN!!!!!!!
    Thankyou all for the stand for truth you are taking, there is so much evidence
    out there for the supernatural evidence of the bible's origin as well as for the
    creation of the universe by God. Finally those of us who have taken God at his
    word and repented and asked Christ into our lives have the constant experience
    of his reality with us and in us.



    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!!
  • Steve  - Truth? Rational?
    I just downloaded and read the PDF version of the introduction.

    Why do some Christians feel the need to convolute, misrepresent and vilify
    science and scientific findings to suit their beliefs? It's deceitful and
    contrary to the teachings they profess to honor. I must say, as a Christian and
    a scientist (Yes, we do exist.), I find the mistruths and leaps in logic
    alarming.

    The pervasiveness of anti-intellectualism in the Evangelical Christian community
    does more to convert people to Agnosticism, Atheism, Taoism, Buddhism, ... than
    science does. Science isn
  • Jeremy  - Completely agree
    Well spoken. As a fellow Christian and scientific mind, I completely agree - the
    idea that religion and science necessarily must be enemies baffles me, but
    what's even more frustrating are those who further insist upon turning it into
    some sort of culture war in which people like you and I are caught in the
    middle.
  • FresnoJoe  - Rational?
    Is It Rational?



    You turn things upside down! Is the potter no better than his clay? Can
    something that has been made say about its maker, "He didn't make me"?
    Can a piece of pottery say about the potter, "He doesn't understand"?

    Psalms 29:16 (GWT)



    Is It Wise?



    You, Lord, at the first did put the earth on its base, and the heavens are the
    works of your hands:

    Hebrews 1:10 (BBE)



    To Trust In The Evolution Mythos



    See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception,
    according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the
    world, rather than according to Christ.

    Colossians 2:8 (NASB)



    While Turning Away From Jesus



    Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in
    departing from the living God.

    Hebrews 3:12 (KJV)



    For The Fleeting Joy Of Sin
    <...
  • Boko999
    "The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot
    nor tittle will be removed," he said.



    From the Living Waters Canadian website:



    "This special 280-page edition not only contains an abridged Origin of
    Species but also has a 50-page Introduction that reveals the dangerous fruit of
    evolution, Hitler's undeniable connections to the theory, Darwin's racism, and
    his disdain for women."
  • Troy A
    "He has allowed you to exist and know that you exist even though you
    hate Him. I know. You cannot comprehend this."

    Amazing that you know this. I thought only god could read our hearts. I guess
    you can too.

    And "His perfection is demonstrated in our imperfections in
    this" sounds like something Oral Roberts or some other loony coined.

    You also seem to know and understand god's motives for creation, past what has
    been explained in the Bible. Did you dream these things or are you a prophet?
  • Glen  - Truely amazing
    Troy, yes it is truely amazing! It is also amazing that you know God can read
    your heart yet scorn comes out of it. Oral Roberts did not come up with these
    words. Your last sentence indicates you have intimate knowledge of what is
    written in the books of the bible. It is good that you have read and understood
    it in its entirety. Spritual things are discerned spiritually. If you don't
    have the Spirit you don't have the answer. Really to understand your comments
    on My knowledge I would need more words from you concerning what it is you are
    speaking of.
  • Jason Corbin  - Good
    It is a good idea to no longer answer questions about the "new" Origin
    book. If I was in Mr. Comfort's shoes, I would also seek to distance myself
    from any critical inquiry, as it could never end positively for me.
  • Robin
    Evan,



    The bible is book of fulfilled prophesies.

    There are so many just to name a few:

    The nation of Israel was prophesied even before there was any jew or the nation.
    The scattering of the people of Israel due to disobedience, The coming of the
    Messiah, The birth palce of the messiah, Rise and fall of great emperors and
    nations like Alexander the great. The suffering of the messiah, the resurruction
    of the the messiah, the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and many more.

    You would be intersted to know that there are more prophesies about the coming
    of the Lord Jesus again, but you will not beleive unless it happens and there
    you miss it again because of your unbelief.

    Seek the lord while He my be found and seek forgiveness because either ways
    death or return of Jesus, you will be damned to eternal judgement if you do not
    beleive.

    Now its the time of Grace and Mercy but then it will be a time o...
  • Tony  - Comfort is not being entirely honest.
    Rays introduction is a particularly pathetic rehash of classic creationist
    arguments which have been repeatedly refuted and then it concludes with an
    appeal to creationist thinking under the guise of apologetics.

    If atheists are upset about Rays introduction to OOS, then they need to view a
    much more prominent work called "The Skeptics Annotated Bible", which
    offers an in-depth, line-by-line criticism of the bible.

    Fair is fair. If atheists can add their critique to the bible, creationists
    should also be afforded the same tactic.

    For the most part, however, atheists, like scientists, expect EVERY scientific
    theory to be severely criticized, even their own. It is an essential process
    called "peer-review". Some scientist even peer-review themselves and
    falsify their own theories.

    Peer-review keeps the whole thing honest, even if not always entirely accurate.
    Rays publishing of OOS ...
  • Mark
    There's a big difference between writing a book comparing and contrasting
    Evolutionism and Creationism, and writing an introduction of The Origin of
    Species that is about creationism. Ray Comfort has written "Nothing Created
    Everything." Why isn't he satisfied with that? Why does he want to be
    intellectually dishonest and hand out a copy of The Origin of Species that has a
    contradictory introduction in it?" No atheist would print a copy of the
    bible with an intro to it telling the atheistic point of view. We'd be stoned,
    or otherwise vilified. Why is this right?

    IT'S INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST!
  • Glen  - Is that the very best you can do?
    Intellectually dishonest? Really is that all you can say? Just throw it out
    because Mark has spoken! That's intellectually dishonest! Poppycock, Mark!
    Your inability to recognize truth does not make Ray's introduction
    Intellectually dishonest in the least little bit.



    IT IS NOT INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST!



    Mark, you on the other hand may be another story!
  • Glen  - The moral of Murder
    Much farther down within these posts someone asked me specifically about My
    opinion on the moral issue of murder and attempted to equate his with both Mine
    and Gods. I want to answer the question here. His question is a trap and I'll
    not be caught in it. In Mathew 5:21-22 Jesus says this about this sin. It does
    not matter what I think. It matters what He thinks. It is His perfect
    standards that He will judge by not mine. Can anyone stand in the light of this
    knowledge of God's Holiness? Can you say I have never hated anyone? Even that
    guy that cut you off intraffic this morning? The better question is what are
    you gonna do about it? g
  • Al  - Its quite sad...
    that in order to prove a point (what that point is any-more, I'm not sure that
    the deluded can even put their finger on ...), a text that has, beyond any
    reasonable doubt, advanced our understanding of the planet we inhabit and our
    origins is being defaced by god bothering halfwits, hell bent on perpetuating
    primitive and obsolete beliefs.

    The sheer number of posters here who do not understand the term Theory when
    applied in a scientific sense is also frightening. Obviously if you dispute the
    "Theory" of Evolution, you in turn dispute the "Theory" of
    Gravity, or the "Theory" of Relativity...? Thought not - please, no
    "because I can see it!" straw-men responses to this post. The
    creationists - I refuse to use the term ID, as there is nothing intelligent
    about it - also ignore the fact that Human's domesticated the dog 12,000 or so
    years ago....

    Its the 21st Century; that idio...
  • Glen  - Not logical
    To say that disputing one theory means that one dispute all theories is not
    logical. Take a deep breath and come back to reality. I love the way you did
    not use the term intelligent design. I am glad you have seen that there is a
    great deal of intelligence to it. After all you have yet to understand the
    entirty of creation in your absolute intelligence. What is sad is the highly
    intelligent must resort only to belittling these putative god bothering people
    using words like halfwit then using thier self appointed authority degrade even
    the message as being primitve and obsolete. Finally I just had to
    say..."Because I can see it!" A demonstrastion of your lack of
    authority.
  • Shannon, M.Div.  - Hmm.
    Would someone like to publish a new edition of Martin Luther's "Preface to
    Romans" with an introduction highlighting some of his more egregious
    anti-Semitic statements?
  • evan  - prophecy
    well what physical evidence is there that any of the so called prophecy has
    become a fact? if so i would love to hear it. are u saying that the only
    prophecy that is fact has been from the bible? well i encourage u to look at the
    works of Nostradamus and Leonardo da Vinci
    Many prophecies are open to interpretation so how something have a factual
    backing when it a person some how thought that was what the writings were
    saying.

    on a second note how can you or any one prove that the bible was just written by
    some one that was divinely inspired, how is it not certain that they were just
    drunk or high off their religious butts.

    on another note how can there be so many contradictions in a book that is said
    to be with out flaw? take for example how can in exodus 20 god send his
    commandants say thou shall not murder when a latter in the same book the
    Israelite people basically canalize genocide of all the peo...
  • Glen  - Prophecy
    Even, your comical satire was most enjoyable. Can you write more? I
    particularly ejoyed how you have no idea what so ever about how many biblical
    prophecies have been fulfilled. It just staggers my mind. Do some research
    into it first. But here is one prophecy Jesus spoke of that is perfect. It has
    been fulfilled. It is only one but you asked for only one. Jesus spoke of the
    temple in Jerusalem. The people were in awe of it and speaking of how majestic
    it was and He told them that not one stone would be left on top of the other.
    Look around it is just as He said. g
  • Glen  - prophecy--real time
    Revelation 11. all of it. Please read it yourself space restrictions prevent me
    from includiing the passage. Sounds freaky doesn't it! ONLY in the time when
    this was written 1) How can every person in the world look upon thier dead
    bodies for three days? 2) How can information about thier deaths be disseminated
    to the entire known world be done in three days? This prophecy is unfolding
    before your very eyes! Never before in the history of the world has there been
    technology availible to see what is going on in real time than NOW!
  • Glen  - drunk or high
    People that perform these behaviors are interested in self. They want to get
    drunker and higher. Never do they speak to nations and peoples to repent and
    turn to God! Alway solving in bars or in secret things they know nothing about
    and then forgetting anything tomorrow. People inspired by the Holy Spirit do one
    thing; sacrifice thiemselves for your benefit. Drunkard nor addict nor
    pharmakeutikos nor pharmakeia will do anything with the present of the creator
    to your salvation.
  • Glen  - contradictions
    This is the leading plea of the non-believer tending towards the atheistic. The
    one thing that stands out to me is the athiest will demand God destroy him them
    get mad when he does! Consequently other athiests will use that destruction to
    further his hatred and turning it into putative proof that God does not exist!
    It is good though that you have knoledge of the rules God has laid down for your
    conviction! You no longer have any excuse.
  • Glen  - prophecy--interpretation
    This is another excuse used to negate the validity of God's demonsrtation that
    He knows our future. If you must interpret the prophecy it is no good. Try to
    interpret God's statements that the country He made would be reborn in one day!
    That nation is called by His name! That country being exiled for 2 thousand
    years is now upon us! ISRAEL! Nostro and da Vinci are so common in today's
    circles. Nostro is confusing at best. daVinci is nothing but a artist to me
    and an unbelievably good one at that! I know nothing about any of his
    predictions of future events.
  • Glen  - prophecy from bible only?
    Good question! Now you are asking for meat instead of milk. This topic is
    covered extensively in the bible. You have demonstrated good knoledge of the
    info inside those books known as the bible but fail to know the exactions given
    for real prophecy? Real prophesy give by God? I ecourage you to look for it.
    You will not accept my testimony. Go into it and find it out!
  • Glen  - prophecy--Jesus
    Read John 3 all of it. Jesus told the lady and us that God would not be
    worshiped in Jerusalen or the hills of Samaria. Done! It was fulfilled when
    the Romans kicked Judah out of the land of their inheritance. 70AD.



    do you need more?
  • Glen  - oops
    I meant John 4 not John 3.
  • cue
    evan:
    The hebrew words for kill and murder are unfortunately not differentiated in
    some translations. You will find with some basic study that the words are
    different. The commandment uses the word 'murder', not 'kill'.

    But Im not going to play this game with you. You KNOW that the world did not
    create itself. Your conscience tells you that you are damned to hell if you do
    not submit to God. So I wont play this game with people who deceive themselves
    so that they can be their own little god. There is PLENTY of evidence to
    convince anyone of God. And PLENTY of evidence to convince anyone that
    macro-evolution is a load of mind-dumbing hog-wash.

    Blessings.
  • S. Britton  - Why are most atheists so mean?
    I've ready most of these posts and wonder why, if you dont believe in God, why
    should you care so passionately that I do? And why be so hateful about it? It
    just makes me wonder what's behind all that anger. (very Freudian) If you really
    dont believe, then graciously accept that other people do, because it really
    shouldnt matter to you anyway.

    Thanks LW for this website.
  • Troy A  - You want one error? You got it.
    A "perfect" god created flawed beings. That is far more unbelievable
    than creating something from nothing. Sheesh.
  • Glen  - Troy A
    Yes he sure did. His perfection is demonstrated in our imperfections in
    this...are you ready? He allowed us to choose to love Him or not. Should He
    have created beings that were nothing but automitons then there would be no
    demonstration of His love. Just a bunch of robots. Instead there are
    passionate men and women demonstrating His kindness and love. He even love you
    so much that He has allowed you to exist and know that you exist even though you
    hate Him. I know. You cannot comprehend this. Best of luck to ya.

    g
  • evan  - what if we turn the tables
    how would u and many other Christians feel, react or like it if a group of
    Atheists got together and wrote a forward to a bible just bashing everything you
    have a so called faith in and just saying its all a bunch of hog wash.

    in turn i believe that there is more prof in evolution then in the bible or any
    of its so called teachings. A simple fact that can not be proven is that jesus
    was born of a virgin. The ark of the covenant, the holy grail, or that this book
    was written by some holy spirit that inspired them to write.

    and don't say faith is the answer to all of these questions, give a logical
    reason for why you believe what you do.
  • Maggie  - Prophecy
    The Bible clearly shows that whoever wrote it knew the end of human history from
    the beginning. No human could do this. I suggest you look into this aspect of
    the Bible it's what convinced me to take the message within it's pages
    seriously. Prophecy is both prediction and pattern. Check it out for your self
    before you criticise it.
  • Mt  - interesting
    So you are saying Origin of the Species is eauivalent to the Bible. So Origin
    of the Species is the Atheists scriptures. Interesting.
  • Dave  - reply to your comment...
    ..."if a group of Atheists got together and wrote a forward to a bible just
    bashing everything you have a so called faith in..."

    You have GOT TO BE kidding right??!?

    The Bible has been diagnosed, dissected, discussed and slandered by
    non-believers since it came into existence. Christians are mocked, tortured and
    killed the world over because of it. What's to hate? What part of peace &
    kindness do you have a problem with? "love your fellow man, etc."

    Why can everybody else "slander" us in the most vicious manner and yet
    when we make a gentle nudge, simply trying to show our point of view, we are met
    with hatred, mockery and intolerance?

    Mr. Comfort's writing a 50 page forward to such a powerful book as "Origin
    of the Species" shouldn't be looked upon as something threatening... treat
    it as what it is - an opportunity!

    Y'know... it's like if something broadca...
  • Don  - Why does this Origins project bother you all so mu
    It is interesting to read some of the comments posted.



    If people are confident in their beliefs then this should not be an issue. We
    should encourage people to make educated decisions about life in general, why we
    are here, what happens when we die, etc. If reading Ray
  • Sara
    Evolution is fact. You don't have to believe in it to make it real. Educate
    yourself.
  • Glen  - Sara
    Since you regard yourself as educated you should then know it is impossible to
    do on your own power, skill or even intelligence level. Learning is alway done
    in this sequence; 1) observe, 2) mimick, 3) master. In order to learn anything
    from anyone the student must follow and alway does follow these steps. So in
    regard to eduating ourselves we must follow a master. As you have followed your
    master we follow ours.

    And it takes a great deal more faith to believe evolution than it does Jesus.

    g
  • Robin  - Sara,
    May we know by what authority or experience are you saying that eVolUTion is a
    FacT&%$
    How can you prove evolution? And please do not say science or any argument that
    is worn out by now on this site...any new discoveries while I was away praying?
    Please bring it on..
    The bible is word of God because God says it is.
    Education is not the beginning of understanding
    Fear of God is beginning of wisdom and understanding.
  • Lisa
    Sara evolution is a theory, not fact. Darwin himself stated in his book that his
    theory could be proven wrong. It has been proven wrong many times but is still
    taught to school children as fact.

    If you want all the facts you might want to read a book called the Case For
    Christ by Lee Strobel. He is a former athiest and journalist.

    Its amazing what he finds out from some very prominent, even Nobel Prize
    winning, scientists. Worth a look!



    God Bless!
  • Ted  - Ted - Lisa
    Please cite one published, peer-reviewed case where evolution has been
    disproven. Evolution of man from a common ancestor shared with other apes is
    indeed a theory which can probably never be fully proven in a way that will end
    these debates. The principles of evolution however, are observable, testable
    facts, and techniques based upon them are used in laboratories around the world
    every day.
  • Glen  - peer review
    Sorry buddy your peer review process is bias from the start. The only peers you
    accept review from are the evolution accepting science geeks. These guys have
    no other way of thinking. They never step outside the evolution arena. As a
    result getting a peer reviewed article out of them in not possible. First, they
    will not allow any papers to get into thier periodicals and second they won't
    allow grants to be issued to invetigate anything other than evolutionary theory.
    The extreme bias prohibits proper scintific examination of evidence.

    My citation though comes before science was ever invented. It is called the
    book of Genesis. By the way, it has been peer reviewed several times over.
  • Mike  - Peer review
    Genesis has been peer reviewed? Really? By who? I thought there was only one
    God? Please tell me who is God's peer.

    There is clearly anger by some on both sides of this argument. Your anger and
    hatred of those who don't believe like you puts you in the same place as those
    "evolution accepting science geeks." Condemn me all you want, it won't
    convince me there is a loving God out there. Damn me to hell if you
    prefer.....it still won't prove any of your assumptions or beliefs.
  • Glen  - Mike
    Wow buddy I don't know what side of the bed you woke up on. Sorry to have
    offended you so terribly. The peer review that you speak of is of human origin.
    The peer review I speak of is also of human origin. God spoke it to us and we
    read it. Those that accept it are a peer review group just as those in the
    science field are. BTW: I have no anger against those that don't beleive as I
    do. It is more like sorrow and angst to get them to see what they refuse to
    see. At some point you just have to step aside and let the truck trounce them.
    I have made the effort. I don't pass judgement. I tell of judgement to come. I
    am truely sorry that you have set your heels in stone and rebell against God
    with such furvor. Yet you are still tesifying to the God of creation. You are
    not powerful enough to rebuke that.

    g
  • Mike  - Religious hatred
    Glen,
    I'm not surprised that you don't accept responsibility for your hatred of
    others. Instead you hide behind religious rhetoric. Where's your faith?
    Where's your courage? The only thing you've shown in all your posts is hatred.

    Could you please answer my question: who is God's peer? Since the bible was
    written by God, the only entity that could "peer review" it is another
    God. You've wrapped yourself up in your own rhetoric.

    Mike
  • Glen  - Hate
    Mike my friend your only ability is to hear hate. I have said no words in that
    vein. Humans usually hear what is inside thier own self when reading posts of
    this nature. My entire goal is for posters to hear how rediculous some for
    thier statemsnts are. So I use the lowest form of wit, sarcasm. It does not do
    a very good job of anything really. It usually just belittles me. That is why
    I wrote an appollogy to Andy concerning my contemptuous writtings. As for you it
    is clear that you will not be swayed from rebellion towards God. I really don't
    expect you to change. You are sealed!
  • andy1968  - Hate
    Mike, as an atheist I do not agree with much of what Glen says or thinks, but I
    can confirm that he did appologise for some contemptuous writings as he said.
    Glen, as you said in another post you will not accept anything when people
    question your faith, such as when Jesus spoke to the Pharasees - I can't
    remember the post. But has there ever been anything that has made you come close
    in the past to not believing in God and questioning your faith?



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - ?????
    As an inquisitive person i am very peaked to discuss this area. But I have some
    apprehension. Andy thanx for the admonition. I really have been doing little
    more than toying with you because you are not gonna move. I know it isd not a
    Chirt-like thing to do. That is why I sought forgivness by confessing to you.
    The only way you will move is to have "very good proof"--from one of
    your posts. So, until I can hone in on what it is that has derailed you I
    cannot ask God to help you in that direction. Some have the ability given by
    the Spirit to just know what it is that you'll need but I don't see that with
    you. It just has not been given. So let us discuss it. Tell me what derailed
    you and I will tell you what railed me.
  • Glen  - God's Peer
    I have not wrapped myself in anything like rhetoric. The spirit in you is
    twisting your thoughts to the sound of rhetoric. He has also given you the mind
    set to attempt to trap me in my speach. No! You will trap not me but yourself.
    Peer review is a solely Human concept designed to manage human error and control
    over what is written and what is read. The peer review I have stated stands!
    Humans over the centuries have read the books in the bible and have believed!
    To your contempt. I love spaeking about "where is my faith" though I
    don't know why you are questioning anything I have in the direction of God!?!?
    Must be because you know He is and is unsettles you.
  • Mike  - I'll answer the question
    Please Glen, the words that trapped you were yours not mine.

    The answer to my question: God has no peers. Therefore, anything written by God
    cannot be peer reviewed.

    I don't have contempt of Christians....although I can see how you could come to
    that conclusion. I've not been direct in addressing what I think of Christians.
    Let me set the record straight. I know many Christians and love them as friends
    a family. I appreciate these people of faith, they don't condemn me for who I
    am. They actually listen to me when I speak and don't judge me; they also
    passionately tell me what they believe. I pay them the same respect that they
    show me, I don't condemn them for their faith and listen to what they have to
    say. I wish more Christians would be like that, actually living by what they
    claim.

    I do have contempt for Christians, and others, that believe that I can only
    believe what they tell me t...
  • Glen  - Convicting in your own speach
    Mike it is good to hear you convict yourself by your own tongue. You know and
    have rejected. It is your own doing that has you tangled. Thank you so very
    much for telling everyone that you know God does not have any peers. This
    testamony from you is the reality of your situation. When a Putaive Christian
    accepts your anti-God position they also are guilty of your offense. So no I
    don't join in the crowd to accept the sinful behaviors. This infuriates you
    because the spirit within you cannot grab hold of me. I also don't condemn you.
    The law does that. And is perfect in its reach. All i do is remind you of it.
  • David  - "theory" is not synonymous with "blind guess"
    The scientific definition of theory is very different that the word's colloquial
    usage. Yes, a scientific theory is never said to be completely proven or itself
    a "fact", but it is a model with explanatory power, is supported by many
    facts, and makes testable predictions. To someone honestly weighing information,
    the theory of evolution seems only to be getting stronger as knowledge
    increases. That's not to say there is no God that started everything - that's
    simply not a scientific (testable) question.
  • S. Britton  - Not a fact
    I went to a VERY liberal college. However, I had one very open-minded science
    teacher who honestly admitted that, in his opinion, evolution was much a theory
    as any other un-proven theory. It cannot be scientifically confirmed so it is
    NOT a fact. Most of the "facts" used to support the evolution theory can
    be explained in other ways. Sorry.
  • Frank Schmidt  - Ray....how sad!
    What planet are you people on? Face the facts and admit that the Bible is NOT
    the word of God. It DOES contain an awful lot of errors and mistakes and
    contradictions. The gospels do not even agree on the day Jesus supposedly died.
    Perhaps you could go and start a banana plantation.
  • Glen  - Frank
    Get beneath me Satan! Your lies are clear as day.

    g
  • Cynthia  - Origin of Species
    I am on the same planet you are, earth. When you speak of errors, what are you
    talking about? Most people make comments on something they know very little
    about.

    What makes you sad about what Ray says? He is telling the Truth.
  • Robin  - What errrrr orrssss!
    Hey Frank Schmidt,

    What contradictions are you talking about. The 4 gospels are complimentary and
    if they had to conspire then the 4 disciples could have got together and
    fabricated the story so sceptics like you would find it easy to believe.
    Obviously then you'd say 'Look there is no differences in the 4 narrations of
    the gospel.' The fact that Jesus died was MORE important than the day of the
    week and yeah the resurrection that is the foundation of Christian faith which
    is vital.
    Try and focus on the important parts...ok
    Bring on any more errrr orrrs so we can know it.
  • Pete
    Errors? I challenge you to name just ONE.
  • Nick  - Just to name a few
    If you want us to name some errors so be it.
    1.Why in the Old Testament does God condone and even aid in the slaughter of
    anyone that did not believe in him (the flood, Sodom and Gammorah), and yet in
    the New Testament he wants these same sinners to be converted?
    2. If God is perfect, why did he admit that the great flood was a mistake?
    3.If God is all powerful why did he need to rest on the seventh day?
    4. Why do Luke and Matthew give different genealogies of Jesus?
    5. How did Judas die, because we have two entirely different accounts from
    Matthew and Luke?
    6. Why does the Book of Jude quote the Book of Enoch, a book that at the time
    was held as true but has now been shown to be counterfeit?
    7. God created light and darkness the first day and didn't create anything to
    produce them until the fourth?
    8. God created plants before he created the sun.
    9. Leviticus 12:6-7 is one you're gonna need to clarify for me. Wh...
  • Glen  - Pete hope you're still hanging around!
    NUMBER 1: The question does not seem to be phrased right. Primarily God is
    Soverign. He answers to no one. Especially to His created ones. Second, God
    is Holy. That means there is no evil in Him. As a result He cannot tollerate
    sin. Third, He is just. When He determines that there is no way to salvage
    these people it is entirely up to Him to do whatever it is He chooses to do; He
    is soverign. This is the confusing part of the question. The sinners eliminated
    in the flood and Sodom and Gamorah Converted? Their judgement has come and
    gone. How is it then they can be converted? Confused by this part of the
    question!???!?!?
  • Nick  - What about Free will?
    So I am to understand that he gave us free will, which so many die hard
    Christians often argue as the reason for the existence of evil, but then he
    destroys us if we choose to use it?

    About your seventh day answer, no it doesn't say he stopped making stuff, it
    says he rested, and then he apparently went back to his job as overseer.

    Your answer to my fifth question would be good, if they were slightly different
    stories. Furthermore you have to take a stance, either the bible is wholly true
    and God-breathed, or it isn't. You can't say this book is without flaw...except
    for all the flaws.

    Louise, you picked an interesting verse to quote, as it seems to contradict the
    end of days when God will bring an end to all things, does it not?

    As I final note, I would like to say I am indeed not an atheist, only a
    freethinker who is annoyed when people do not think for themselves.
  • Glen  - The Seventh Day
    I really don't see how this is a problem? So He Stopped making stuff after it
    was all done. And this is a problem How? Very odd question. No idea
    whatsoever how this is a contradiction. I can see how it is an excuse.
  • Glen  - Why do you care how Judas died?
    NUMBER 5: Eye witnesses seeing and telling different stories is not uncommon. So
    you think everything else must be drawn into suspicion as a result? Well, then
    our judicial system must be dicarded if this is the way you are thinking. I also
    hope you don't have more than one friend telling you what happened the night
    before. No doubt they are different in their tellings.
  • Louise  - To answer some of your questions
    I'm not going to answer all of your questions, but I think I can answer a few of
    them for you. You've obviously read the Bible, and that is one thing you've got
    in your favor.



    2. If God is perfect, why did he admit that the great flood was a mistake?

    I know that it might seem to you that he admits having made a mistake when he
    says he won't do it again. But lets read it carefully, Genesis 8:21c "I will
    not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's
    heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing
    living, as I have done. (KJV) I do not see God saying that the flood was a
    mistake, only that he isn't gonna do it again. My answer to your question is HE
    DIDN'T.
  • Sheila Miesfeld  - Origin of Species Campaign
    Dear Ray and Kirk:

    I've seen you share the gospel on TV a number of times and really appreciate
    your ministry. I will be praying for you and others envolved in Origin of
    Species Campaign. I believe God will use you mightly and I thank Him for your
    faithfullness in carrying it out. I saw the video, Kirk and it moved me deeply
    and encouraged me to pray and ask God to use me mightly too. God has all His
    bases covered. One more thing is many Christians have adopted methods to win
    people to Christ. You begin right at the core, helping people recognize they
    are sinners and need a Savior. When I share with someone, I find that acceptance
    is key to sharing the Gospel message. Letting someone know the important thing
    is hear what God is saying to us in the scriptures and not that I'm right and
    your're wrong. I've had a conversation with a fella recently and learned
    identifying with where he was at spiritually got his attent...
  • Glen  - Andy's own words
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - First lie
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - Second lie
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - Third Lie
    Andy says:
  • Glen  - a little more
    And finally, morals from Darwinian beginnings? Huh? Are you saying your morals
    are like a dog that smells the butt of another dog due to altruistic reasons?
    Please, don
  • Glen  - Something about what?
    Because they are what God said. Okay now this is another set of posts. So here
    we go. Keep your hands and feet inside at all times. The law is set forth to
    do something very speci-fic! But to understand this thing one must understand
    the job of LAW. So I always ask people what they think a law does. You would
    be surprised at the wide range of answers. Law does only 1 (one) thing; law
    convicts of wrong doing only. The job of law is conviction! Not-hing else!
    Judgement & penalty come after law
  • Glen  - where are my posts?
    Hey guys...where are the rest of the words in my posts?



    g
  • Robin  - andy1968
    Hi andy,

    most people you meet would consider themselves to be very good people beacuse as
    far as they are concerned they are better than the person who is not a rapist or
    a murderer. That is we compare ourselves among ourselves and we are not wise. I
    want to take the liberty and speak on behalf of the creationist that we do not
    consider ourselves to be morally perfect or right. Thats the reason we need a
    Saviour!



    Bible says there is no one who is good none that does righteousness.I am not
    implying that you are not a good person...but Gods standards are different.



    The bible is a historic book and you have to check its validity historically.
    The early Israelites who got the law from Moses testified that it is the word of
    God..so does Jesus in the New testament. Surely you cannot imagine that the
    genrations ranging from Moses' time to this genration have together fabricated
    this story.



    Besi...
  • andy1968  - Robin
    Thanks for the blog Robin. I don't think the story is fabricated however the
    story can change from generation to generation. For example the writers of Luke
    and Matthew insisted that Mary conceived as a virgin (Greek parthenos). The
    Hebrew word alma which parthenos is a translation error means young woman not
    implying virginity. It seems the virgin birth is a mistranslation from the
    Hebrew. This changes things drastically if you consider that the supernatural
    birth of Jesus to a virgin was a mistranslation of young woman to virgin. It
    implies Jesus' birth was natural. I think you have to be careful about the
    Biblical content that's all.



    Andy
  • Robin  - andy1968
    What about the prophesies of the virgin birth in the old testament like the book
    of Isiah which foretold the virgin birth of Jesus Christ?

    Matthew was a book written to the Jews so the lineage was important presenting
    the Messiah as the King of the Jews.

    There are no mistake in translation as people have scoffed all through the ages.


    The number of prophesies about Jesus is fulfilled in Him alone, no other person
    fits it. The four gospels are not contradictory but complementary, four witness
    accounts of the life of the greatest historic figure. Our calender dates are
    based on AD and BC which points to us that there was a person called Jesus, the
    early historians would not use a person who could be a con-man to date our
    timeline; surely you need more proofs..

    Check out other accurately fulfilled prophesies about Alexander the great, the
    destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD as prophesied and the birth of a
  • andy1968  - Robin
    Yes Isaiah 7:14 in the old Testament I think. Although I don't believe and am
    not Christian I admire people who know their Bible Robin because it has always
    been something I could never get into.



    Thanks Andy.
  • dcomfort  - andy1968 - morals
    I'm sorry Andy but you can't say you are "very moral" unless you have an
    absolute standard to compare yourself to. Otherwise how do you tell if someone
    is very "immoral"? It's like having a ruler that has no points of
    measurement. You wouldn't be able to say anthing is a certain length if nothing
    is defined in regard to what length is. Once you have established what an inch
    is, everything can then be compared to it.

    Also, you admit that no one needs a commandment to know that kiling or stealing
    is wrong. I agree, it's called the conscience, and God put it into every human's
    heart. You will be without excuse on the Day that you give account to God for
    your life's actions. When you lie, cheat, steal, lust, you do so knowing that
    it's wrong, even though you deny the Ten Commandments. Especially in light of
    the fact you have decided that you will be the one to decide your own morals. So
    why does your mind still...
  • anddy1968  - morals
    Thanks dcomfort. But why stop at morals if you are going to say that God is the
    ultimate standard. You might as well say that some people are very smelly while
    other people don't smell too much. However we need to compare ourselves to an
    ultimate high standard of smelliness. And that ultimate standard is God - he is
    the universal peerless stinker (Dawkins TGD).

    There is no difference in this arguement.

    Because I don't believe in God I don't accept judgement day. I have not decided
    my own morals I have the same moral values as christians I just don't get them
    from scripture.



    Thanks for your post Andy.
  • Glen  - acceptance
    Andy my friend. Your acceptance is irrelevant. Resitance is futile. You will
    be assimilated. Just kiding. I like the Borg. I think I like them because they
    are so offensive and ugly to boot! If you had the same moral values as
    Chirstians then God would be first on your to do list. As it is God does not
    even exist. So your are a liar! As far as moral standards in Christianity are
    concerned they are there for one reason- to convict us in order to turn us.

    Andy you get the law from the same place everyone else does, namely God. He has
    written they on your heart. Because you rebell from Him is the problem.

    g
  • Glen  - What are your standards then
    I know you've posted later closer to this but what are your standards then? You
    have just lied in the passage above. I have pointed it out in the other post I
    have made. Is lying an okay standard for you by your moral beliefs?

    g

  • andy1968  - morals
    Thanks Glen. I want you to do the assimilating if it comes to that. I don't
    think I've lied. If I have to put a meaning behind it I meant I have the same
    moral values as christians - they get theirs from scripture I don't. That's what
    my post said.



    Andy.
  • andy1968  - morals
    You think murder is immoral - yes so do I. Your a christian, I am not you think
    you get that value from scripture I don't. And that's it - that's all I meant.



    Andy.
  • dcomfort  - morals
    If you followed the Christian morality, you'd be a Christian and believe in God.
    Otherwise, you're picking and choosing what you believe to be right and wrong
    from that view, thus making up your own morality. By the way for something to be
    wrong, there HAS to be a right. For you to say that murder and theft is wrong,
    how DARE you say that someone else has to follow those rules. Only the law-giver
    can do that (or someone speaking on His behalf). Otherwise, you're just forcing
    your views on someone else, which, in this generation is considered intolerant
    (immoral) -- go figure!

  • andy1968  - morals
    I didn't say anyone else has to follow these rules. That is what you are doing.
    You are taking the commandments and saying that is what everybody should believe
    because that's what God said. You are forcing these rules on everyone else. The
    commandments are a basic common sense guide of how to be moral. I think one of
    the commandments says don't covert thy neighbours ox. I don't know anyone who
    owns an ox.

    I am not making my own morality. I said it comes from Darwinian beginnings.
    Think about the smelliness arguement - there is no difference between that and
    morals.



    Andy.
  • andy1068  - morals
    You say 'how DARE you say that someone else has to follow those rules. Only the
    law-giver

    can do that (or someone speaking on His behalf). Otherwise, you're just forcing

    your views on someone else, which, in this generation is considered intolerant

    (immoral) -- go figure!'

    This is coming from a website that supports a 50 page supplement being stapled
    into a scientific text to promote their dogma. Does hypocrisy come under
    intolerant (immoral)? How many atheists have de-faced Bibles and handed them out
    in churches.



    Andy
  • Robin  - andy1968
    Just a quick reminder- The laws were given by God to Moses on the Mount, the
    finger of God wrote the 10 commandments which we still follow.



    Earlier scribes wrote on parchments not on paper or word documents. Gosh! Sam
    Harris missed that one so do you.

    Archeaologists have not found bibles but things like dead sea scrolls etc. Bible
    was later printed for our generations; earlier it was copied by human copiers
    word for word.

    Took a lot of effort by humans but God divinely preserved His word.



    Repent and belive! so thet you and your household will be saved.
  • andy1968  - Robin
    Thanks Robin. As far as following the 10 commandments are concerned I do not
    lead my life by them but I am still very moral. Throughout the animal kingdom
    alturistic behaviour is paramount because it benefits the individual to be so.
    This has a Darwinian beginnings - in small groups you have many relatives and be
    good to your neighbours benefit your the gene pool.

    I accept what you say about parchments but extraordinary claims about the finger
    of God requires extraordinary evidence.



    Andy.
  • dcomfort  - Andy1968 and morals
    Andy1968 said, "As far as following the 10 commandments are concerned I do
    not lead my life by them but I am still very moral."



    You're very moral compared to what? What is your measuring stick?
  • andy1968  - morals
    Good point. There is no measuring stick and I am not comparing myself to
    anything. I don't think you need the commandments to know that you shouldn't
    kill people or steal their possessions. Treat people as you wish to be treated
    yourself. This has come about by Darwinian processes because all animals show
    alturistic behaviour. Some creatures are so alturistic towards their feeding
    peers to the point where they will act as lookouts for predators, go without
    food themselves and not let anyone take over.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - That is from Jesus buddy!
    Andy...umm buddy you are quoting Jesus when you say treat other as you would
    have them treat you. Careful you may be closer to Christianity than your moral
    laws allow.

    Do you even know what the word, moral, means?

    look it up and get back to me. We might make a truth teller outta you yet.

    g
  • Carl  - Prove it
    "Andy...umm buddy you are quoting Jesus when you say treat other as you
    would have them treat you. Careful you may be closer to Christianity than your
    moral laws allow."

    Can you prove Jesus said this, bearing in mind that the Bible is a poor and
    unreliable source of facts? If you can prove Jesus said this, can you then prove
    that before he said it nobody thought it or practiced it? In the absence of any
    proof can you at least exercise it, because at the moment you are not well using
    the morals you claim you inherently assumed from god.

    Indeed, if you believe you get your morals from an all powerful and loving being
    why are you so venomous? Your vehemence toward people who challenge your stance
    is palpable. One of the things that often confuses me regarding people of faith
    is just how condescending and obnoxious they can be. Does this mean your god is
    condescending and obnoxious?

    Here's a quest...
  • Robin  - Carl- Prove it
    The bible is a book that was written in the same generation of people who
    crucified Jesus and was verifiable. There are so many other non-Christian
    historic evidences and documents that prove these facts.

    Imagine some body writes a book about lets say Micheal Jackson or anyone else
    who is a famous figure and it is a load of lies...would the book ever get past a
    few hands. I mean do you think the 1st century people were so gullible that
    early church fathers and other religious authorities let is go on as a fable
    ...?

    Jesus' sermon on the mount is one of the greatest piece of literature and
    preached by non believers

    Mahatma Gandhi believed the words of Jesus and used it to teach his followers
    even though he was non Christian.
  • Glen  - Carl
    Nice try Carl. You have yet to see what the "Moral" standards the I am
    quoting are for and what they do. You also don't see what Humans are supposed
    to do in light of them. The venom that you are hearing is derived from inside
    of you. Granted that some of my words are exptremely passionate. You ask so
    many irrelevant questions. Ask these questions of you most revered sources.
    Bear in mind that the bible is a perfect source of facts. I lire of the lies
    that are spat and expected to be consumed and revered. I will not. I will call
    them out. Should that be seen by you as venom so be it! Stop lying!You self
    appointed authority to lay as fact a lack of proof is also a lie! If it is
    venomous to call you on it so be it. Don't do It. As fo obnoxious and
    condescending, and you are not? Please, read you own stuff. Your condescention
    comes again froma self appionited authority with NO proof that you actually have
  • Glen  - No stick
    That's so funny. Hey Andy Buddy,so then why have you made yourself the very
    stick you say does not exist?

    It is also interesting that you quote animal behaviors as the stick as well.
    Now I am a little confused.

    g
  • Dawkwin  - Survival of the Fittest
    There is no room for survival of the fittest AND not stealing...animals steal to
    live.

    Do they lie...if they don't get caught stealing they sure will hide the
    evidence.

    Murder?...if they want to not be killed.



    All animals...?



    Guess it's hard to say animals have evolved human like traits.



    Nemo and Bambi are not real.



    Evolution is a great concept.



    Just not proved.



    That's the point.
  • andy1968  - dawkwin
    I didn't say animals have evolved human like traits. I said animals show
    alturistic behaviour.

    Nemo and Bambi are not real but they can be seen in cartoon form. This is to a
    greater extent than the God of the Bible has shown himself.

    Evolution is a great concept and has been proven beyond any doubt. It is a fact
    in the same way that the Earth is round and not flat is a fact.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Man
    Andy, buddy, just when I thought you were getting close. God has shown Hinself
    and continues to do so. That fact that you get bent outta shape is even more
    evidence. Evolution has not been proven as fact beyond the shadow of a doubt.
    That is why people are still debating its merrits.

    g
  • andy1968  - Man
    It's no longer debated in the scientific community it is accepted as fact now.
    It is only debated internally when fossils and new findings are made.

    We would require a massive turn around in the scientific community over many
    disiplines for many of the current theories and facts to be wrong. If evolution
    is not true then God must have created the world to make it look as though
    evolution was true.



    Andy
  • Glen  - So what.
    Andy, so what is the scientists don't debate this any more? It is not true but
    so What? Debate is readly availible. Just look at this page! If one limits
    the debate to just the ones that hold to the values then science is no long
    objective. It has now become biased. Bias is the death of science. In science
    there are those holding to the understanding that this place cannot be unless an
    intelligent designer made it. They are so ostracised from grant money and other
    funding sources by those that hold to the evolution theory that you don't but
    rarely hear about their work. Sad that science actually biases itself to its
    detriment.
  • evo  - Debate in science
    The only debate in science about evolution is about the position of a fossil in
    the tree of life, i.e. what are its descents and predecessors.

    There is no bias in science, that's why you have cars, computers, detergents,
    medicine and so on, because science has investigated the natural world, emited
    theories that explained the reality, tested those theories in practice, looked
    at evidence to see if the theory is correct and ditched *all* the theories that
    were proven wrong.

    The theory of evolution hasn't been contradicted once by real evidence and is
    supported by huge piles of evidence from genetics, fossils, observed reality
    (see the plastic eating bacteria) and many other places.
  • Glen glenschmeisser  - mmmm
    No bias in science. As one can clearly see evolution is still very hotly
    debated. to limit ones debate to only the science field demonstrates the bias
    inherance in science to begin with. Not to mention all the other ones. Too
    many to list here. And most classes teach heavily on the topic becasue it is so
    prevalent. Soory you don't paty atetntion.

    g

    What is "real evidence"? visual? science already knows visual evidence
    is the weakest.

    whatever. cantradiction is everywhere.
  • john  - mans decline
    According to evolution man has risen from slime and climbed to god status but if
    you look at the moral decline of society over the last few thousand years we
    find that it is the opposite we started off created in the image of God and now
    our society is so morally corrupt it is on the brink of collapse it proves that
    Gods account in the bible is absolutely correct mankind is not on the rise we
    are declining at a rapid rate.

    Keep up the good work Ray Comfort, evolution is a religion based on the worship
    of mankind and has been mortally wounded.

    Regards john.



  • Dan  - Man's Decline>
    So you're saying that the world was better when slavery was common practice?
    When the standard of living was so poor that many people never lived past 50?



    You prefer slavery and a short life-span to the first-world countries of today
    where people can live well past 80, where all people are considered equal, and
    freedom of speech is a right?
  • Philothea  -  it is a question of FAITH for Atheist and Christi




    Thanks for your responses Andy --

    I would like to present my view to you and others who might be interested

    I believe in scientific evidence but always leave room for a new discovery later
    that might disprove the original theory--if I am not mistaken this has happened
    in certain areas in mathematics and science - and being a Christian I believe
    that sooner or later science and the BIBLE- WILL- move closer and closer
    together. I believe this because I believe the Bible is the living word of God
    which is TRUTH ....having said that and don't shoot me down yet :) I see no
    problem with the fact that the universe began with a Big Bang if that is what
    scientists see the evidence leading to. The big question is who or what started
    the bang? - I don't believe THINKING Atheists believe that there was nothing
    and nothing made everything , since that is irrational ( am I wrong ?) I believe
    thinking Atheists belie...
  • Glen  - convergance
    Philo,

    Hey neet post. I think your right in saying that science will eventually come
    into complete agreement with God and the word. Science is the observation of
    the creation. And God has kept a lot of people quite busy trying to figure it
    out. Humans need to be busy. I also see no trouble with a start to the
    universe. And agree with your position about who initiated it. That is the
    major problem in science right now. It is dominated by people that don't
    believe there is a God. That is an immidiate bias from the start.
  • andy1968  - Philothea
    The big question is who or what started

    the bang? Absolutely - nobody knows. But when I say nobody knows that means
    everybody, including theologians. Scienists at least admit they don't know, but
    religiousness seams to think it can get away with making the extraordinary claim
    that there is a designer with no evidence. Like I said above you can replace God
    with the IPU or FSM and still be in the same position. Interesting comments
    about science and bible moving closer Ithink they are drifting apart. And you
    said 'always leave room for a new discovery later that might disprove the
    original theory'. Yes good comment that is what science does continually.



    Thanks for your post Andy.
  • Glen
    Again you claim no evidence while there is a plethora of it. This replacing of
    letters argument is silly. You cannot clain that there is no designer of you.
    You were manufactured from one sperm and one egg joining forces. Before hand
    you did not exist. The designer is therefore your parents, right? Did your
    parents then give you that moral code you are using too? Was it is the sprem or
    the egg? or Both? Did you just pick it up from the streets? Or do you know
    inside of you deep inside that this or that is good or bad? And what is your
    purpose to exist?

    g
  • Philothea  - As Christian also need Andy's question answered


    Hi I am a Christian and believe that the Universe was Created by an awesome
    intelligence far beyond anything we could ever comprehend BUT I am also stumped
    by the question brought up by Andy and not yet answered-and that is if you say
    "NOTHING CREATED EVERYTHING" IS WRONG!!! what do you say to an atheist
    who says : as the Christian believes GOD ALWAYS EXISTED we believe that

    MATTER ALWAYS EXISTED and hence the evolution process had the substance
    necessary for it to begin??





    keep up the good work

    regards Philothea



  • andy1968  - Creation
    Scientists do not know what happened before the big bang - there is no real
    astronomical or cosmological explanation what made the universe come into being.
    However saying that God did it equally explains absolutely nothing either. You
    might as well say the flying spagetti monster or the invisible pink unicorn (IPU
    has a website of its own) created the universe.

    Taking Genesis chapter 1 literally and saying 'there was nothing and when God
    spoke there was everything' (over 6 days) is exactly what Ray is critising
    science for - creating everything from nothing. You are then left with the even
    bigger problem of endless regression in having to explain a God. And which God -
    Allah?
  • andy1968  - Creation
    Philothea, all matter in the universe followed from the big bang 75% hydrogen
    (H), 25% helium (He) and small amounts of other substances very simple really -
    not complex, H and He are the 2 most simplest elements and comprise almost the
    entire universe. The elements to start evolution in the first place were
    synthesized in the insides of hot stars. Gravitational collapse of H + He clouds
    forms stars. We can see this happening in nebulae. Nucleosynthesis in a star's
    core converts H into He. When the star uses the H fuel it starts to converts He
    into carbon, nitrogen and oxygen + heavier metals. When the star blows itself up
    these heavier elements form the Sun and Earth. We are the result of a previous
    supernova. Not only that because of the chemical signature left from this
    supernova we can determine that the star was a Wolf-Rayet star. As Carl Sagan
    said 'we are star stuff'.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - answer
    Philothea,

    As a Chiristian if this question has rattled you, the foundation you stand on is
    not firm. Shore it up sister. For God says He created these things. Before He
    created them they flat out did not exist. For the athiest I have no other
    answer. Our minds don't allow us to go that far. By this I mean Human beings.
    We can imagine all sorts of stuff but to imagine matter as it currently is
    having existed with out beginning is a stretch even for science. That thought
    is eternity. Science shys away from these religious terms. Even then where is
    the natural selection to form a peptide bond? Or a strand of DNA that actualls
    codes something? And who wrote the code?
  • Glen  - Careful Philo
    Be care the seeds of the pharacee's Philothea. Time to check your foundation.
    The one thing the enemy wants is to get you to question God. Before matter
    existed God existed. It is that simple. Andy however wants you to be misled.
    His words are like yeast in bread. Be careful. Jesus of Nazareth is the One
    present when all this was spoken into being. He came here and even told us
    about His presence At The Beginning. One more thing about this...if you don't
    believe God can create everything you see is 6 of our days he is not big enough.
    The God of the bible is big enough. He is soverign and powerful. Power, not
    the way humans understand it. When God speaks it happens. No one else need be
    involved.
  • Glen  - scientists
    Andy is right by saying scientists don't know what happened before the big bang.
    But God does and he has told us. Now since stars are always forming from these
    condesations why has one never been observed? Many putative explosions have
    been observed but not one condesation into a full flegged star has been seen. I
    fing that curious. Andy continually asks the question Which god? There is only
    one. He has come and He has set us free in a unique way. Not to be found in
    any of the humanistic religions. Philothea, since you claim to be Christian
    bu8t your armor on and move beyond worldly thinking and into heavenly thnking.
    This is what is known as Spiritually mature. I have no doubt that Andy will
    attack with teeth bared. Just pay attention to the spirit he brings.



    g
  • Jake  - I find this terribly amusing
    I know Ray would just love to blame this brouhaha on atheists terrified of this
    book, but the fact is that the backlash is not from atheists, but from all
    intelligent, informed people.

    Underhanded tactics like this are the most dishonest, intellectually bankrupt
    means of pushing an agenda and Ray deserves every ounce of ire he receives as a
    result of it. As many have already suggested, I'd ask Rays supporters consider
    the backlash if someone were to include an equally smarmy, propagandist forward
    in copies of the bible and attempted to hand them out at religious gatherings.
    Would you consider that a fair and honest way of debating the merits of
    religion?

    If your ideas can't stand up the the same intellectual scrutiny as other
    scientific theories, then they probably have no merit. If this is the kind of
    foolishness you're forced to resort to in order to win support, then you deserve
    none.

    Congrat...
  • Glen  - Wow
    Interesting how you have placed the religious in a category of unintelligent.
    The under-handedness is yours not Ray's. Intellectually bankrupt people are
    spouting off just like you all the time. PLacing one group beneath everyone
    else for a random bogus reason is one of the more innane ones. This time it is
    that we believe in God. The only backlash is from people that hold Darwin's
    book about God. This is idol worship. AS for your thoery of adding a forward
    to the bible...I was unaware that Darwin's book is a religious text. Doing what
    you intend to do would place it in the same category. Is that what you really
    want?\

    g

  • Robin  - Bravo Jake!!
    You are so amusing Jake, really all this does is reveal your ignorance.



    Imagine comparing a book that is more than 1500 years of old, compiled by more
    than 40 authors which has stood the test of time and scoffers for centuries with
    a theory by some one who coined it 150 years ago.



    Please do the effort and include a 50 pg introduction in the Bible if you can
    find enough arguments. You will help fulfill the words of Jesus' prophesy that
    "This gospel will be preached in all the nation"



    But I would like to caution you about what God says about adding to this book
    anything that -the deadly plagues mentioned in the bible will come on you...go
    ahead take the jump!



    Remember you were offered the parachute but you chose the painting of Mona
    Lisa...you must think you are invincible....
  • Glen  - glad...part 2
    But the stages of development are very, very interesting. Indeed the apparent
    stages of "evolution" appear to be moving through the embryonic stages
    of development. Though when you take a much closer look at the process one
    quickly see that the organism has a very hihgly developed and tightly controlled
    segnemtation process designed to manufacture very specific sections of the
    organism. It really isn't a walk through "evolution" but rather a walk
    through the construction of the individual. Time is everything too. Some genes
    stay turned on longer than others etc. Influence time or gene product and you
    don't get a new species of organism you get a dead one. Eliminate the
    "higher" genes "placed there by evolution to make antother
    organism" you don't get the lower critter you get a dead one. So on and so
    forth...hear the violin?
  • Glen  - ?
    Andy, you used an arguemnt about chance to demonstrate that something can
    happen by chance and that it did not happen by chance? I think I am confused by
    the chance?

    g



    Think I'll stay away from dice.
  • Anonymous  - University List
    Is there a list of the universities somewhere? I'd like to know if SDSU and UCSD
    will be included. Thanks
  • Lydia J Vester  - For all you who don't believe
    Here's a question? Do you believe that fish can fly?
    You probably said immediately, an amateur and an uneducated, "No".
    On a high horse you go. Well here's a better question? Have you ever seen a fish
    fly.
    Had you asked me about 2 months ago I would have thought immediately that you
    were seriously crazy, stupid, or maybe a trickster.
    Well a month and a half ago my husband and I took our honeymoon in Cozomel,
    Mexico. On a boat ride, I saw the most random, unbelievable sight. That's right,
    a flying fish. Though they only get about 2 feet tops out of the water, they
    soar for about 5 seconds. Look it up, YOUTUBE the action of this phenomenon.

    So here's your lesson of the day.
    1. Do you believe that fish can fly?
    Just because you mentally have been brainwashed to not believe that something
    more intelligent than you is keeping your heart beat as we speak, doesn't change
    the FACT that "In the beginn...
  • Glen  - complexity
    I would like to address this complexity arguement a bit. You are a bit blind
    here. Tell me how can a system generate the very product it uses to make the
    product? Can you? The Krebs cycle along with glycolysis and electron transport
    is the wonder system our bodies use to generate the NRG needed to continue
    living. Yet it requires the very product it makes in order to function. Since
    you are a great and wonderful mind with powerful mathematics skills please
    calculate for me the probability the any system can do that on its own.

    Then tell me which of these proteins evolved first?

    g
  • andy1968  - Complexity
    Unfamiliar with the Krebs cycle Glen. Fats, carbs proteins can be used to
    generate the energy. Thr 1st product of the krebs cycle is citric acid. This
    reminded me of Richard Dawkins new book TGSOE, where he describes 45,000 lab
    generations of Ecoli carried out over 20 years by Rchard Lenski at the
    University of Michigan. The Ecoli were limited in their supply of glucose yet
    amazingly one batch 'evolved' (dare I mention the E word) to metabolise citric
    acid which was also in the flasks of Ecoli. The result was highly improbable
    according to Lenski but given enough time (generations) evolution naturally
    selected the mutation that metabolized citric acid. Google Lenski.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - HuH?
    You mean bacteria still being bacteria are able to eat a carbon based molecule.
    Cool! What genious figured this out?



    Citric acid is not the product of the Krebs cycle, glycolysis or electron
    transport. ATP is. Also CO2. All thiose fun little things you listed to
    generate NRG not only go into the cycle but are abler to come out of it. It is
    so impressively complex that you would be very hard pressed to say randomchance
    produced such a highly complex cycle. Aside from the fact that it uses the very
    produce it makes; namely ATP. Without ATP it cannot make ATP.



    g
  • andy1968  - Complexity
    I am a chemist and I don't know much about the Krebs cycle, a chemical process -
    useless. Not a great and wonderful mind also as my maths skills are poor, but
    the dice throwing saga was to demonstrate that evolution has not occured by
    chance.



    Thanks Andy.
  • william walters  - oh wow
    so i just stumbled across this site after hearing about Kirk and rays plan with
    the good book (i.e. the origin of species) and i had know idea that they had so
    many fans! i honestly thought allot of their acts were comedy skits! did you see
    that Youtube video with the banana? hilarious! but i digress, what i find more
    curious would be their constant insistence that the theroy of evolution has
    never been proven. i mean why else would you deface a scientifically verified
    book with your own 50 page adaptation, then for comic relief?
  • Robin Samuel  -  Not sitting on a fence
    Hi Mike,



    If you want to read the bible pls go to Genesis(1st book of the bible) and it
    says clearly 'In the beginning GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth...' so what
    is all the confusion about reading it.



    If you read a book you either believe it or not. How else is the bible suppose
    to prove what it says. To know the bible is true you have to look to the bible.

    Read Rays articles on builder - building; painter - painting and other such
    similar ones if you need to understand it better.Other resources avaialble to
    make an atheists think..



    If you still do not beleive then you are obviously from the NOTHING created
    EVERYTHING camp. Thats fine !
  • Mike  - Where's the Faith
    "NOTHING created EVERYTHING camp."

    That statement shows a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution. No biologist
    believes that, clearly something had to be there to evolve. Continued
    mis-statements of evolutionary theory won't help prove God.



    To know the truth in the Bible one needs to have faith. Where is faith in all
    these discussions strings? There doesn't seem to be many demonstrations of
    faith in these discussions.



    Mike
  • Robin  - where is the faith
    Mike.

    As you have suggested ' clearly something had to be there to evolve'

    Without the basic components aleady present how did evolution take place?



    I mean man with all the intelligence and the genius he claims to be; cannot
    create anything from scratch (i.e. zilch) by itself.



    We have not even ventured into the faith realm here as it is based on Scientific
    explanation.



    You guys seem to have more faith than me! I'd say.. because to belive in
    Evolution you have to have super de-duper faith.
  • Robin Samuel  - Still few guys on the fence...
    To Karl Buckland



    So do you give the Pope's word or his metaphorical thinking more value than the
    word of God.

    If God says it was in 6 days thats it.

    As for evolution if the bible says God used evolution then beleive it....mine
    does'nt.



    Jesus said rightly..."In vain do you teach men to follow traditions making
    the word of God of no effect..."

  • andy1968  - Evolution and Chance
    There is no film evidence of course for evolution however DNA provides a trace
    back in time to common ancestors - such as between humans and chimps.

    Evolution does not happen by chance like Kirk and Ray keep saying it does. The
    chances of throwing my 100 digit number are impossible despite it having
    happened the first time around. Evolution happened the first time around and the
    evidence for it is huge. Different circumstances or temperatures would have
    produced different organisms butthat's not the way it happened; in the same way
    as I would have had a different 100 digit number if I had shook the dice for
    longer or dropped them from a different height.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - DNA
    Not so fast Andy po bandy! Since all things evolved from single celled
    organisms then all the DNA should be complementary in an advancing evolving
    fassion. Of course giving for non-lethal mutations. So then I should be able
    to extract from me a DNA sequence from MY genome that carries the DNA from the
    stepwise evolutionary process from single cell to comlpex cell fitting evey step
    along the way. Please also not that DNA'S gets progessively more detailed and
    complex as it adds on to the next evolutionary step. So where did the First
    Chromosome in the tightly packed and organized fassion that I see in MY genome
    come from?
  • andy1968  - DNA
    You say 'So then I should be able

    to extract from me a DNA sequence from MY genome that carries the DNA from the

    stepwise evolutionary process from single cell to comlpex cell fitting evey
    step

    along the way'.



    Glen, it does! DNA shows us who are common ancestors were through fish,
    amphibians, reptiles, shrews, chimps... Not only chemical evidence with DNA but
    physical evidence as well as in the embryonic stage of life. Embryology shows us
    that we the creatures mentioned above pass through an embryo stage where they
    are practically identical.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - Glad you went there
    Andy I gotta say I think I have been approaching you with the wrong attidute.
    It is Contempt. Please forgive for that. I really tire of these continual
    debates that lead no where. The embryonic developemental process is a very
    interesting event. The DNA does not built as you have claimed it does here. No
    amount of me saying that will change your mind so I am just gonna slide. It
    really no longer matters to me.
  • andy1968  - Evolution and Chance
    Let's suppose I set up a camera and film myself throwing 2 dice 50 times to
    generate a 100 digit long number. Then I give a group of people 2 dice to see if
    they can throw this number using without shoeing them the film. They can sit
    there all night throwing the dice but if they throw the dice once every second
    there will not enough time in billions of years to repeat my earlier feat. If I
    show them the film they will say 'oh right you have already recorded yourself
    throwing the dice and that was the number you generated'. This is what
    creationists are misunderstanding with evolution. They are saying evolution
    cannot be true because the chances of it happening are impossible, without
    realising that evolution has already happened like my 100 digit number.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - chance
    HuH? you men evolution happened only once? Never agian to occur? So which
    critter got zapped? Then what about all the rest? You see your arugument is
    rediculous because evolution is thoerized to be an on going number 100. And you
    are saying that we are stuck in the 100? That is really outta sight!
    "cause evolution is saying that you roll that number 100 every single time.
    try again charlie. You aint no where near right!
  • andy1968  - chance
    You need to read the arguement again because you have missed the point of it.
    Yes the number 100 is ongoing but even 100 digits is impossible to repeat. The
    arguement is describing ongoing evolution. You are talking about the probability
    of how it all got started in the first place. The conditions to get evolution
    started happened only once in the first place, yes, I agree with that because it
    is highly improbable. However, you do have an enormous amount of time so the
    chances are favourable. Once started the rest is not improbable turkeys, fish,
    monkeys don't just appear by chance. All creationists miss the point of
    probability to start evolution and during the evolutionary process.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Yes
    Keep talking Andy you are almost there. The impossible happened. I heard you
    say that the immpossible happened. Even by your standards the impossible
    happened. Since it is impossible it cannot happen by chance. Energy must be
    exerted in order to accomplish it. Somethng must happen in order for the
    obviously impossible to become possible. You attribute it to "an enormous
    amout of time". I'm certain that an infinite amout of time will not allow
    the impossible to become possible. It is still impossible.
  • Darin's Angry  - You still don't get it
    Where did the dice come from?
  • J.Romeo  - thanks
    thanks glenn
  • Glen  - Credance
    "I wouldn't mind if his word was written in the stars this would give it
    more credance."



    Jesus says:



    31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching,
    you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will
    set you free."
  • Henry  - drivel
    from that I gather you read the first sentence and then stopped? It doesn't
    bother you at all that when Comfort claims evolutionary theory should expect to
    find a crockoduck he is entirely wrong? The writer is not even asking you to
    accept evolution, but to at least understand what it's SUPPOSED to be. Isn't it
    important to know what claims you're refuting? It doesn't bother you that he is
    PROVABLY wrong about the "female problem". And by provable, again, I
    don't mean that you need to accept evolution, only that Comfort's interpretation
    of what evolution is SUPPOSED to mean is entirely false. Doesn't that matter?
  • Henry  - know your topic
    wrong is wrong whatever you decide you prefer to believe:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-20682-Boston-Underground
    -Examiner~y2009m10d16-Vandalizing-Darwin-the-Kirk- Cameron-Ray-Comfort-campaign
  • Glen  - ?
    Drivel? Ray's stuff is drivel? Wow! I think your are right about one
    thing...This guy in the site you have provided is wrong! Bseides, there is no
    vandalism of the work. Just a forward. How insecure do you have be. Saad.
    reaaaallly sad.
  • Mark
    Amazing.



    Ray has succeeded in leading large numbers of atheists to the Word of God. They
    seem to be following Ray--wherever he goes. Perhaps some will emerge from the
    darkness and see the Light...



    All you are is a weak, mortal, fallible, imperfect human being, Mr. Atheist.
    I'm not impressed. Nor should anyone else be. You will die someday, and if so,
    I suggest you be prepared.











  • Connor R.  - There is a God
    There's some great stuff here, it's nice that we have apologists willing to
    actually do something. For those who say there isn't a God, check out my blog,
    www.debunkedevil.blogspot.com

    Evilbible.com did an article about why God couldn't exist, and I proved it
    wrong. I'm 16, that should tell you a little about how hard it would be for Ray
    lol.
  • Jason  - Uh, what?
    You didn't debunk a thing. You simply displayed how warped of a view of moral
    behavior one must have to regard the bible as true. Killing someone because they
    do not love you enough is unethical, regardless of your position in the
    universe. He killed EVERYONE ON EARTH BUT ONE FAMILY for that very reason.

    I see that you feel pretty clever about that blog, as perhaps you should. It's
    decently written, and thorough. However, to anyone who is not psychotic, it
    doesn't justify God's (thankfully fictional) repeated mass murders.
  • Robin  - Jason-why the hatred?


    You seemed to be a bit misinformed to say that God killed the whole earth
    because they did not love him: not true but a LIE!



    God judged the earth and will do it again but not for lack of love but because
    of sin.

    God is holy and by nature must judge sin. The early world was pretty much like
    ours today full of immorality, lust, perversion...only the bloodline of Noah was
    found to be pure so God saved them in the ark.

    Guess what it must have been like this- Noah preaching to the world of
    rigtheousness and people mocking and scoffing till the day the Lord sent rain on
    the earth.



    Bible says God demonstrates his love for us in that while we were yet sinners
    Christ died for us. If you repent and believe the gospel you have forgiveness,
    freedom from all your sins.



    Be rest assured God will judge sin again and if there is no blood to cover you
    the judgement will NOT passover you, C'mon man!...
  • Glen  - AMEN
    Good work Robin!
  • kally  - prayin for you:)
    You guys(Kirk & Ray)are very bold, you will truly have your reward in heaven:).
    Grace & peace to you both, I'll keep your ministry in my prayers:). >
    _____________________

    One doesn't want to hear the Gospel because of his or her pride, because the
    Gospel points out that we haven't done things right. People don't like to hear
    that. I didn't when I was an unbeliever. He humbled me..and it took almost for
    me to die to come to Him. Thanks to His mercy, I am still alive today and was
    delivered from my sin of eating disorders. I pray others reading and glimpsing
    around on this site that don't know Him, ask to know Him..and "you will know
    the Truth, and the Truth will set you free."

    "He who is freed by the Son is free indeed."
    John 8:36

    Much love to everyone on here, atheist and christian:).
  • Full Amor of God  - Jesus is who I follow
    To Kelly - not an atheist but still offended. Your fight is not with Ray and
    Kirk. They are giving you a chance to know the truth. A smart person would at
    least investigate both sides of the spectrum before making a determination of
    who is rigth and who is wrong. Why would you get offended at what Kirk or Ray is
    saying when they are trying to share the truth of the Gospel. If you pick up a
    bible and begin to read you to will be given the information they are trying to
    share. How could you argue based on just feelings alone. The feeling of being
    offend. Many people get offend by comments but that doesn't change the truth of
    the comment. Perhaps you should not be so easily offended and find out THE TRUTH
    first. It may save your life. Your argument is with God the father, Jesus the
    son and his holy counsel. You will be judged one day based on all you said. Read
    God's word first and see if there is a creator of you who wants you to...
  • Mike  - When will the campaign...
    be at Georgia Tech? I would very much like to read this copy of Origin of
    Species.
  • Kelly  - Not an atheist, still offended
    I just watched Kirk Camerons video message about Origin in Schools. I am neither
    Christian or Atheist, and I was still deeply offended by the video.



    The sentance which I took greatest offense to was when he said, and I quote,
    "All we want to do is to present the opposing AND CORRECT view rather than
    being censored."



    How dare you point your finger at the world and grow angry at them for saying
    they believe evolution is correct, then preach that people should take both
    sides into account and choose for themselves, then have the AUDACITY to
    procalaim that YOU ARE CORRECT, making everyone else wrong. You say people
    should have the choice but then you take the choice away from them by declaring
    yourself right.
  • Glen  - Audacity
    Is it audacious then for your teachers to tell you the 2+2=4? Or that a word is
    spelled this way or that? Is it audacious for them to tell you that is unlawful
    to steal? Is it audacious for them to tell you that Hitler was incorrect?

    Kirk made a claim right? No! God made the claim and Kirk only repeated it for
    you to hear in school. Your argument is with God not Kirk or Ray or me for that
    matter.

    Well one fella asks which religion is the right one. Christianity shows us
    something unique in all the religious observances; namely the cross. It is the
    only religion that witnesses to God paving the way to Himself for us by Him. All
    others pave the way by our works. They are only bribes given to a righteous
    judge that will not be accepted because they are an insult.
  • andy1968  - Glen - Audacity
    Really Glen think about the insanity of the situation. You claim there is a God
    who can create a Universe and all things in it - stars, planets, galaxies and
    life; then this God has to rely on Kirk and Ray and other people to relay the
    message. You may argue that God's word is written in the Bible but this God
    still had to wait for humans to invent paper before He could write his word
    down. Is he incapable of anything without the help of people? I wouldn't mind if
    his word was written in the stars this would give it more credance. Sam Harris
    said: 'there is not one single word in the Bible that could not have been
    written by anybody living in the iron age'.

    As far as the cross is concerned making Christianity unique, you need to be
    aware that you are worshipping a device used to torture people to death, which
    is a bit sinister for me.



    Thanks Andy.
  • Glen  - Andy
    I LOVE YOU BUDDY. Opening up this can is gonna be fun!

    God does not require humans for anything. However, he knows that we must learn
    by experience. He also knows that we require a relationship with Him. THis is
    why men work along side God to speak to other men. You see there is one more
    thing We require...each other. So God uses us to teach each other while in
    relation to Him. His design. As for the cross...i could not agree with you more!
    The vileness of men captured By God to demonstrate our own nature. Men designed
    this! Men actuated this! Men not God! Time to wake up buddy. Sleep no more.
    When I look at the vileness of death on the cross I see just how bad rebellion
    from God is. You just blame Him for it.
  • Glen  - more worms
    Insanity... nice. The intellectually sound must rely on insulting the person to
    lower them to the correct level in order to speak to them. I find it facinating
    and complementary that you think so highly of me. What you and you kind fail
    repeated ly to see is God does not leave all of the teaching to men. It is
    written all over creation. That's right! Creation. He made it and it speaks
    of Him without everr sleeping. And all you can do is complain about me being
    insane for see it! Wow. Who is Sam Harris And why should I care? Since he is
    not much more that some iron age scribbings in your post I'll simply ignor His
    very existance. Besides what does he have to say that could not have been said
    in the iron age? Oh yes...I do not worship the cross. I worship God. You know
    the one that allowed men to kill the flesh He took on by being nailed to it.
    Jesus. The cross is just a remembrance of His work and a testament to i...
  • Glen  - credance
    No andy you'd give it no more credence than you do now. God's word is alive. I
    know you cannot comprhend that. I am not the one with the power to show you
    that either. I can only tell you about it.

    Your credence is self derived. If you in all your glory see fit to do so then
    you yeild to credit something. Remember your glory is nothing but dust and
    ashes and you are going to return to it. Since all is derived in self and self
    is going to return to dust so are all your derivations.Jesus has been remembered
    from the beginning.

  • andy1968  - Glen
    Thanks Glen. Of course you are not insane but the situation generated by
    religion is insane. An all powerful God like the one touted by religions would
    find it very easy to reveal himself but makes such hard work of this by
    remaining invisible. There is still not enough evidence there to convince me of
    a God. I was quoting Sam Harris because that sentence shows that the Bible was
    written by people who did not have the knowledge to include anything
    revolutionary such as: how stars form, DNA, electricity, atomic theory - all the
    things you would expect a God to know about.
  • andy1968  - Glen
    As far as creation is concerned all that we see around us is not proof that
    there is a God. What Darwin explains in his book, which Ray has added his 50
    page supplement, is that complexity can form by natural processes. Every
    religious person who I have heard speak about the subject completely
    misunderstands how evolution by natural selection works. Ray Comfort's interview
    with the Robertson fellow on this site is full of falsehoods about Darwin and
    the evoultionary theory. I think most religious people have the problem with
    macroevolution more than anything because we are simply not here long enough to
    see it happen, but that does not mean that it hasn't occured - evidence is
    extensive.



    Andy.
  • andy1968  - Glen
    Glen, your last paragraph on 'credance' does not make sense to me.

    The phrase that made me atheistic more than anything was when I read: 'God was
    created by man in the image of himself and not the other way around'. This put
    all religions into perspective for me as being used by men as a means to
    control. Everyone says God's word is in the Bible, however this book was still
    written by people.

    You're right that I cannot comprehend that God's word is alive. I was brought up
    in a school that took us to church every now and then, but I could not accept
    the scriptures as being real. Perhaps it is the way we are indoctrinated as
    children that makes us believe; I didn't have religon rammed down my throat.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Andy1968
    It has nothing to do with indoctrination Andy. Nothing at all. soory you don't
    comprehend. I am also sorry that you are not able to comprehend that everything
    you see DOES witness to the existance of God. And Sammy was used to demonstrate
    anyone can use the iroon age arguement to dismiss anything or anyone. Sorry
    again in your advanced intellect you were unable to see that. Man brother,
    there is a lot you don't see. I sure hope you are not a scientist. You'd miss
    the discovery right beneath your eyes. You are right about the wickedness of
    men using religion to control. God did not send that to us nor does he insist
    upon controling us to beleive. Either we do or we don't. Everyone will reap a
    reward for what he/she believes.
  • Glen  - Andy
    On a more loving note...what in the world do you beleive about God? You state
    you went to a school that took you to church.

    Also what does one have to do to get you to see that the word is real and
    alive?

    Agian it has zero to do with indoctrination. It does have to do with Proof,
    though.

    I'd love to know more.



    g
  • andy1968  - Proof
    It would take evidence and very good evidence.

    Do you think I want eternal life to be sat next to Jesus, a loving God and all
    family and friends living happily forever more?

    Of course I do! Sounds great! Unfortunately the biblical scriptures of all the
    religions don't convince me of this. The above is about what I want but the
    universe is not about what I want or what anybody wants. Evidence shows the
    universe is cold and indifferent. We can be wiped out at some point (asteroids,
    comets) and it just wouldn't matter. I find this more awe inspiring that having
    a God in place. I place Gods, Faries, astrology, tarot cards, all superstitions,
    supernaturals and pseudosciences in the same pot - the one waiting for more
    convincing evidence. How about you?



    Thanks Andy.
  • andy1968  - Proof
    It does have to do with proof, however, proof and faith are opposed. you have to
    have one or the other.



    I just love science. Science is not based on faith you can go and check the
    evidence for yourself. Science self-checks itself through peer review. Google
    'Michael Shermer's balony detection kit' and apply it to something you don't
    believe in to see where I am coming from. I may not want to be or think of
    myself as an evolved ape. Unfortunately I have no choice because this is a fact.
    Doesn't matter what people want.



    Andy.
  • Glen  - Soo ever so close
    Andy, you are so close my friend. So very close. I have asked you a very
    specific question. What evidence do you require to accept that God exists? I
    am actually glad you are asking these questions though. One of the really cool
    thing Jesus does is give us a glimps into our future. One of the unbeliev-abley
    cool prophcies that has come to pass, before I was born any way, is the nation
    of Israel being reborn. She has also made the desert bloom. More prophecy.
    Jesus told us that Jeruslaem would be flattened and it was. It is now back.
    And a cup of trembling for anyone that touches her.
  • Lisa  - Why so offended?
    So what is the problem Kelly? Are you not strong in your convictions of what you
    believe? Why does someone who has conviction in his own belief, while inviting
    you to decide for yourself, affront you? It seems you are offended by the
    implication that you might be wrong. I am a Christian and I do believe in
    intelligent design. I understand there are many who feel that my beliefs are
    WRONG, but I accept that. As a Christian, I must love them because the same
    architect that created me created them. Further, I believe that we have been
    made in His image. Is it not more open minded to listen to both sides? Everyone
    has been given free will to believe as he or she chooses. Do you think that
    individuals should have the intelligence to know what they believe and why they
    believe it?
  • openmindedatheist
    Frankly I'm not going to worry about life after death or indeed whether there's
    an almighty creator waiting for my explanation at the end of life.

    I'll just live my life according to my own values, make friends, have fun and do
    my own thing for the world in general

    The future can wait, right now i've got the present and i'm going to do
    something useful with it.

    Best of luck to all atheists, agnostics and religious believers out there.

  • Daniel  - openmindedatheist - What foolish logic
    To say the future can wait and you're just going to live life as you see fit and
    see what happens later, is likened to being on a plane awaiting your skydiving
    jump, but saying that putting on the parachute can wait. "I'm just going to
    sit here and enjoy the view and worry about if I have a parachute on or not
    AFTER I jump."

    You need to plan for eternity NOW! After you die, you only have judgement for
    the good/bad you have done. You don't have any choices.
  • Karl Buckland  - Your logic is more foolish
    The problem with your argument is that you don't even know if your parachute
    works. You can't prove to me, or anyone else that what you think will happen
    when you die will actually happen or that God exists at all.

    Let's assume I have no knowledge of God, but I do want to be saved when I die -
    which God? Which Religion? If I follow the wrong one I still go to hell... It's
    a no-win situation for someone who doesn't already believe because you can't
    prove anything.
  • poof  - God has...
    The proof you continue to seek has already been given to you. The problem is
    not in the proof it is in you. Karl, Sorry charlie. You cannot see it. As far
    as no knowledge of God is concerned. How is that relevant to you? You have
    been told repeatedly and continue to reject it. The other one is non of your
    business. Jesus tells us if we were truely blind there would be no sin in that.
    "But we see" you say and your sin remains. Holster your teeth my friend
    and beleive. Otherwise reap your reward.

    g
  • Daudi  - salaam?
    Some people believe that Mohammed tells them to blow themselves up in a crowd of
    people in his name. The Jesus of the European Middle Ages told the Crusaders to
    kill and maim Muslims for him.

    "Truth" and "proof" are all in the eye of the beholder, Glen.
    And, it is very dependent on the time in history in which you are living. Just
    because you are blind to those facts doesn't mean that you are right.
  • Robin  - Daudi - salaam?
    You seem to be drifting from topic to topic.

    The question isn't of morals here now, its about creation vs evolution.So this
    argument does not hold much water in this forum.



    If you read the bible Jesus says If someone slaps you on one cheek turn the
    other..He never defended Himself when he was falsely accused. The bible says the
    weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual...all this should be enough
    to explain that Christians adhere to the teachings o Jesus.

    The crusaders were not true followers of Christ or understood the scriptures
    becoz if they did then scoffers would not be able to use that excuse against
    Christianity today.There are so many professing Christians who are not really
    Christians; you have to look at the fruit to know if it is real.

    Please do not compare Christians to Muslim extremists.

    Truth is verifiable, but if you choose not to believe then there is no proof
    left...

  • Glen  - is that a trumet?
    doubti, doubti, doubti. Yup I misspelled your name on purpose. Continue making
    excuses by the things wicked men do and them blaming God for it. By doing this
    you simply demonstrate that you know God is and that you hate Him out of your
    own misunderstanding. Time and era don't change the existance of planet Earth,
    its atmosphere, the delicate temperature requirements for life, the sun or any
    other start in the sky. It only changes the wickedness of mans behaviours.
  • LAB  - Seriously : D
    Karl, seriously!! You would rather jump out of a plane with NO parachute, than
    jump out of a plane WITH a parachute because you don't know if it would open!!
    HAHAHA!!! Listen to your logic, or lack thereof. Ever heard of Pascal?? Try a
    parachute - you has everything to gain, & nothing to lose. BTW, Jesus said, if
    you choose to believe, you will know. Think about that. And if you truly
    wonder if he's there, real, & the only way, just ask him to show you. It works
    every time. That's because he cares more about showing himself to you, than you
    care about finding him.